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Thread: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life appears to be worse now' then under Saddam.

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    Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life appears to be worse now' then under Saddam.

    Nothing like stating the obvious!


    (CNSNews.com) Christian persecution is worse now in Iraq than it was before the United States military and its allies deposed dictator Saddam Hussein, Rep. Chris Smith (R-N.J.) said in opening remarks at a hearing of the House Foreign Affairs' Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights and International Organizations on Tuesday. - See more at: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life Appears to Be Worse Now' Than Under Saddam | CNS News
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life appears to be worse now' then under Saddam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Nothing like stating the obvious!


    (CNSNews.com) – Christian persecution is worse now in Iraq than it was before the United States military and its allies deposed dictator Saddam Hussein, Rep. Chris Smith (R-N.J.) said in opening remarks at a hearing of the House Foreign Affairs' Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights and International Organizations on Tuesday. - See more at: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life Appears to Be Worse Now' Than Under Saddam | CNS News
    Yep, I fear we did more harm to secularism and womens equality in the Middle East as a whole than any imagined good we had hoped for. It does seem most noticeable in Iraq which though run by a tyrant, still was pretty secular and women were in top positions, top educations, seemingly as equal as here if not more.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life appears to be worse now' then under Saddam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Yep, I fear we did more harm to secularism and womens equality in the Middle East as a whole than any imagined good we had hoped for. It does seem most noticeable in Iraq which though run by a tyrant, still was pretty secular and women were in top positions, top educations, seemingly as equal as here if not more.
    He was a tyrant. That's what's pathetic every time this is discussed, the supporters of the ill fated Iraq war want to stress that. But it's not disputed. That is just deflection from the fact that our efforts, time, blood and treasure have made life for Iraqi citizens far worse. But then that doesn't matter, that was just US State Department and White House propaganda to sell an illegal war to the American people. Looking about the ME one of two things is evident. Either there has been a US foreign policy position of destabilization (which is what Gen. Wesley Clark posited) or we have had two back to back, very incompetent administrations and neither is comforting.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life appears to be worse now' then under Saddam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    He was a tyrant. That's what's pathetic every time this is discussed, the supporters of the ill fated Iraq war want to stress that. But it's not disputed. That is just deflection from the fact that our efforts, time, blood and treasure have made life for Iraqi citizens far worse. But then that doesn't matter, that was just US State Department and White House propaganda to sell an illegal war to the American people. Looking about the ME one of two things is evident. Either there has been a US foreign policy position of destabilization (which is what Gen. Wesley Clark posited) or we have had two back to back, very incompetent administrations and neither is comforting.
    Ah, the first administration, baby Bush, went after Iraq because of animosity about his daddy Bush's near miss assasination attempt which was because, iirc, daddy Bush pulled out of the first Gulf War, ie Iraq war, and subsequently didn't protect the groups that had cozied up to the US in order to fight Hussein.

    The second administration, well I don't like what he's done or his decisions, but I also don't have any really better ideas. By the time Obama was able to do anything, 2009, both countries were totally destabilized and regressing. Leaving wouldn't have/hasn't stopped it, but neither does staying. Now he could have done a lot better in his general policies in the ME and calmed instead of escalated stuff, I guess the stupidest thing he's doing, imo, are the drone strikes and the excusing of collateral damage and mistaken strikes.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life appears to be worse now' then under Saddam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    Ah, the first administration, baby Bush, went after Iraq because of animosity about his daddy Bush's near miss assasination attempt which was because, iirc, daddy Bush pulled out of the first Gulf War, ie Iraq war, and subsequently didn't protect the groups that had cozied up to the US in order to fight Hussein.

    The second administration, well I don't like what he's done or his decisions, but I also don't have any really better ideas. By the time Obama was able to do anything, 2009, both countries were totally destabilized and regressing. Leaving wouldn't have/hasn't stopped it, but neither does staying. Now he could have done a lot better in his general policies in the ME and calmed instead of escalated stuff, I guess the stupidest thing he's doing, imo, are the drone strikes and the excusing of collateral damage and mistaken strikes.
    I essentially agree with you. My statement was meant to include the other ME countries that have been destabilized by this administration, I fully realize Iraq was ruined during the Bush administration.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life appears to be worse now' then under Saddam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I essentially agree with you. My statement was meant to include the other ME countries that have been destabilized by this administration, I fully realize Iraq was ruined during the Bush administration.
    The truth is that so did Bush destabilize, and so did Clinton. Matter of fact, in my lifetime, no president has done anything but disrespect those that now hate us, the common people of the Middle East, though the tyrannical governments seem to have each been at one time or another our dear friends as we knew about and did nothing about the way they treated their people.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life appears to be worse now' then under Saddam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    The truth is that so did Bush destabilize, and so did Clinton. Matter of fact, in my lifetime, no president has done anything but disrespect those that now hate us, the common people of the Middle East, though the tyrannical governments seem to have each been at one time or another our dear friends as we knew about and did nothing about the way they treated their people.
    We are in complete agreement now!!!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life appears to be worse now' then under Saddam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Nothing like stating the obvious!


    (CNSNews.com) – Christian persecution is worse now in Iraq than it was before the United States military and its allies deposed dictator Saddam Hussein, Rep. Chris Smith (R-N.J.) said in opening remarks at a hearing of the House Foreign Affairs' Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights and International Organizations on Tuesday. - See more at: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life Appears to Be Worse Now' Than Under Saddam | CNS News
    Of course it's worse. Saddam ruled by fear and oppression, but he kept things orderly. Not to say it justifies letting him be, but it shows that outside aggressors cannot make a country better through military action and good intentions. We never should have been there and we're still paying the price for our interventionism.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life appears to be worse now' then under Saddam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Of course it's worse. Saddam ruled by fear and oppression, but he kept things orderly. Not to say it justifies letting him be, but it shows that outside aggressors cannot make a country better through military action and good intentions. We never should have been there and we're still paying the price for our interventionism.
    I'm less concerned with the price "we're" paying and more concerned with the price of those whose country we f'ed up. We deserve what we get, might get, imo, they really didn't/don't.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life appears to be worse now' then under Saddam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Summerwind View Post
    I'm less concerned with the price "we're" paying and more concerned with the price of those whose country we f'ed up. We deserve what we get, might get, imo, they really didn't/don't.
    While true, I'd rather that we just act appropriately and diplomatically instead of engaging in gross interventionism to feed the power and wealth of the Republocrats and the Corporations they support.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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