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Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life appears to be worse now' then under Saddam.

Montecresto

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Nothing like stating the obvious!


(CNSNews.com) – Christian persecution is worse now in Iraq than it was before the United States military and its allies deposed dictator Saddam Hussein, Rep. Chris Smith (R-N.J.) said in opening remarks at a hearing of the House Foreign Affairs' Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights and International Organizations on Tuesday. - See more at: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life Appears to Be Worse Now' Than Under Saddam | CNS News
 
Nothing like stating the obvious!


(CNSNews.com) – Christian persecution is worse now in Iraq than it was before the United States military and its allies deposed dictator Saddam Hussein, Rep. Chris Smith (R-N.J.) said in opening remarks at a hearing of the House Foreign Affairs' Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights and International Organizations on Tuesday. - See more at: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life Appears to Be Worse Now' Than Under Saddam | CNS News
Yep, I fear we did more harm to secularism and womens equality in the Middle East as a whole than any imagined good we had hoped for. It does seem most noticeable in Iraq which though run by a tyrant, still was pretty secular and women were in top positions, top educations, seemingly as equal as here if not more.
 
Yep, I fear we did more harm to secularism and womens equality in the Middle East as a whole than any imagined good we had hoped for. It does seem most noticeable in Iraq which though run by a tyrant, still was pretty secular and women were in top positions, top educations, seemingly as equal as here if not more.

He was a tyrant. That's what's pathetic every time this is discussed, the supporters of the ill fated Iraq war want to stress that. But it's not disputed. That is just deflection from the fact that our efforts, time, blood and treasure have made life for Iraqi citizens far worse. But then that doesn't matter, that was just US State Department and White House propaganda to sell an illegal war to the American people. Looking about the ME one of two things is evident. Either there has been a US foreign policy position of destabilization (which is what Gen. Wesley Clark posited) or we have had two back to back, very incompetent administrations and neither is comforting.
 
He was a tyrant. That's what's pathetic every time this is discussed, the supporters of the ill fated Iraq war want to stress that. But it's not disputed. That is just deflection from the fact that our efforts, time, blood and treasure have made life for Iraqi citizens far worse. But then that doesn't matter, that was just US State Department and White House propaganda to sell an illegal war to the American people. Looking about the ME one of two things is evident. Either there has been a US foreign policy position of destabilization (which is what Gen. Wesley Clark posited) or we have had two back to back, very incompetent administrations and neither is comforting.

Ah, the first administration, baby Bush, went after Iraq because of animosity about his daddy Bush's near miss assasination attempt which was because, iirc, daddy Bush pulled out of the first Gulf War, ie Iraq war, and subsequently didn't protect the groups that had cozied up to the US in order to fight Hussein.

The second administration, well I don't like what he's done or his decisions, but I also don't have any really better ideas. By the time Obama was able to do anything, 2009, both countries were totally destabilized and regressing. Leaving wouldn't have/hasn't stopped it, but neither does staying. Now he could have done a lot better in his general policies in the ME and calmed instead of escalated stuff, I guess the stupidest thing he's doing, imo, are the drone strikes and the excusing of collateral damage and mistaken strikes.
 
Ah, the first administration, baby Bush, went after Iraq because of animosity about his daddy Bush's near miss assasination attempt which was because, iirc, daddy Bush pulled out of the first Gulf War, ie Iraq war, and subsequently didn't protect the groups that had cozied up to the US in order to fight Hussein.

The second administration, well I don't like what he's done or his decisions, but I also don't have any really better ideas. By the time Obama was able to do anything, 2009, both countries were totally destabilized and regressing. Leaving wouldn't have/hasn't stopped it, but neither does staying. Now he could have done a lot better in his general policies in the ME and calmed instead of escalated stuff, I guess the stupidest thing he's doing, imo, are the drone strikes and the excusing of collateral damage and mistaken strikes.

I essentially agree with you. My statement was meant to include the other ME countries that have been destabilized by this administration, I fully realize Iraq was ruined during the Bush administration.
 
I essentially agree with you. My statement was meant to include the other ME countries that have been destabilized by this administration, I fully realize Iraq was ruined during the Bush administration.
The truth is that so did Bush destabilize, and so did Clinton. Matter of fact, in my lifetime, no president has done anything but disrespect those that now hate us, the common people of the Middle East, though the tyrannical governments seem to have each been at one time or another our dear friends as we knew about and did nothing about the way they treated their people.
 
The truth is that so did Bush destabilize, and so did Clinton. Matter of fact, in my lifetime, no president has done anything but disrespect those that now hate us, the common people of the Middle East, though the tyrannical governments seem to have each been at one time or another our dear friends as we knew about and did nothing about the way they treated their people.

We are in complete agreement now!!!!
 
Nothing like stating the obvious!


(CNSNews.com) – Christian persecution is worse now in Iraq than it was before the United States military and its allies deposed dictator Saddam Hussein, Rep. Chris Smith (R-N.J.) said in opening remarks at a hearing of the House Foreign Affairs' Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights and International Organizations on Tuesday. - See more at: Smith on Iraqi Christians: 'Life Appears to Be Worse Now' Than Under Saddam | CNS News

Of course it's worse. Saddam ruled by fear and oppression, but he kept things orderly. Not to say it justifies letting him be, but it shows that outside aggressors cannot make a country better through military action and good intentions. We never should have been there and we're still paying the price for our interventionism.
 
Of course it's worse. Saddam ruled by fear and oppression, but he kept things orderly. Not to say it justifies letting him be, but it shows that outside aggressors cannot make a country better through military action and good intentions. We never should have been there and we're still paying the price for our interventionism.
I'm less concerned with the price "we're" paying and more concerned with the price of those whose country we f'ed up. We deserve what we get, might get, imo, they really didn't/don't.
 
I'm less concerned with the price "we're" paying and more concerned with the price of those whose country we f'ed up. We deserve what we get, might get, imo, they really didn't/don't.

While true, I'd rather that we just act appropriately and diplomatically instead of engaging in gross interventionism to feed the power and wealth of the Republocrats and the Corporations they support.
 
While true, I'd rather that we just act appropriately and diplomatically instead of engaging in gross interventionism to feed the power and wealth of the Republocrats and the Corporations they support.

Certainly I'd rather as well. However, it doesn't change the fact that we're already deserving of another 9/11 or worse. Now will it happen? Probably not, but if/when it does, I'll have no doubt that we deserve it as a nation even if the individuals harmed didn't. But y'know, seems our government wants us to forgive their collateral damage, so I'll find a way to forgive those that righteously attack us for the ineffective bullies we've become.
 
Certainly I'd rather as well. However, it doesn't change the fact that we're already deserving of another 9/11 or worse. Now will it happen? Probably not, but if/when it does, I'll have no doubt that we deserve it as a nation even if the individuals harmed didn't. But y'know, seems our government wants us to forgive their collateral damage, so I'll find a way to forgive those that righteously attack us for the ineffective bullies we've become.

The problem is another 9/11 will just fuel more of the same crap. Government would love another 9/11. Whip up some fear, excuse even further breeches of our freedom, engage in more hostilities, etc. We may deserve it, but ain't no one gonna end up in a better spot if it happens.
 
The problem is another 9/11 will just fuel more of the same crap. Government would love another 9/11. Whip up some fear, excuse even further breeches of our freedom, engage in more hostilities, etc. We may deserve it, but ain't no one gonna end up in a better spot if it happens.
No doubt, that's the problem with bullies. I have no doubt we will be taken down someday, but not likely in my lifetime. It will most likely be a cyberattack of some sort, imo, that will put the country in such chaos that traditional or even drone war will be effectively impossible.
 
No doubt, that's the problem with bullies. I have no doubt we will be taken down someday, but not likely in my lifetime. It will most likely be a cyberattack of some sort, imo, that will put the country in such chaos that traditional or even drone war will be effectively impossible.

Nothing is infinitely stable, not even the US. But in terms of the Republic, it's already been taken down. We are witnessing the death throes of the Republic now, the continued assault against our freedom and liberty perpetrated by the biggest terrorist organization of them all....the government.
 
Nothing is infinitely stable, not even the US. But in terms of the Republic, it's already been taken down. We are witnessing the death throes of the Republic now, the continued assault against our freedom and liberty perpetrated by the biggest terrorist organization of them all....the government.


Then it will take the actions of the american people to save ourselves.
 
Then it will take the actions of the american people to save ourselves.

Indeed, but good luck on that front. We're fat, lazy, and stupid. It's just as the end days of the Roman Empire, except we never got an official empire.
 
Then it will take the actions of the american people to save ourselves.
At the moment, any non-violent avenue seems well blocked by the money invested in and by the 1%ers.
 
Of course it's worse. Saddam ruled by fear and oppression, but he kept things orderly. Not to say it justifies letting him be, but it shows that outside aggressors cannot make a country better through military action and good intentions. We never should have been there and we're still paying the price for our interventionism.

Absolutely, and to the op, so are Iraqi citizens, still!
 
I'm less concerned with the price "we're" paying and more concerned with the price of those whose country we f'ed up. We deserve what we get, might get, imo, they really didn't/don't.

So well stated!!
 
Certainly I'd rather as well. However, it doesn't change the fact that we're already deserving of another 9/11 or worse. Now will it happen? Probably not, but if/when it does, I'll have no doubt that we deserve it as a nation even if the individuals harmed didn't. But y'know, seems our government wants us to forgive their collateral damage, so I'll find a way to forgive those that righteously attack us for the ineffective bullies we've become.

Ay caramba! You almost certainly will be attacked as anti-American, and invited to leave!
 
Ay caramba! You almost certainly will be attacked as anti-American, and invited to leave!
I am and have always been anti-bully. If that makes me anti-American, it's a reflection of USofA. I have no problem with my position
 
Yep, I fear we did more harm to secularism and womens equality in the Middle East as a whole than any imagined good we had hoped for. It does seem most noticeable in Iraq which though run by a tyrant, still was pretty secular and women were in top positions, top educations, seemingly as equal as here if not more.


Want to know the really sad part?


Apparently it takes a ruthless brutal dictator to make a Middle Eastern country treat women decently.


With the possible exception of Turkey, which is sort of half-European.
 
Want to know the really sad part?


Apparently it takes a ruthless brutal dictator to make a Middle Eastern country treat women decently.


With the possible exception of Turkey, which is sort of half-European.
Yes, that is sad.
 
those in power only have power because we give consent. protest and bring the voice of the people to the front door of congress.
That dream world you live in.... yeah maybe somewhere in our history, but additionally throughout are times when very the very few run our government, our lives, our futures and once again here we are, and Citizen's United has made it all legal. Our pols be they at virtually any level will ultimately, it seems, cave to the 1%.
 
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