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Thread: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

  1. #81
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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    Child rape is a special case tending to have an associated disorder, so in that case no, but such a person should be in an institution anyway, most of the time.

    bonding, I am on the fence.
    How about folks with multiple convictions for say, embezzlement and fraud, do you want them working at your bank or as your accountant?

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Cpwill attempted to make the argument that voting was not a right, when the 15th amendment clearly states that neither the Federal nor State can prohibit it. Period.
    Are you a Constitutional scholar? Or just determined to say your opinion is incontrovertible? Whichever it is? You're wrong. The 14th Amendment clearly states that government has a right to abridge voting. And, of course, that's exactly what SCOTUS determined. Why you are denying reality is beyond me, Cardinal. I thought we were all here to teach when we're right and learn when we're wrong....?

    SECTION 2.

    Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

  3. #83
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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    The question is, why append further punishments to the sentence? Is the sentence the sentence or not?
    I don't understand what you mean by append the sentance. Unless a person is tried in Federal Court, it's the laws of the State that prevails. If the laws of a State include the loss of voting rights for those convicted of a felony, incarceration and/or fines are added to the loss of voting rights, and that is the sentance. The loss of voting rights isn't added later.

    Such a fact indicates the sentenece is "all the above", not "portions of the above".

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Are you a Constitutional scholar? Or just determined to say your opinion is incontrovertible? Whichever it is? You're wrong. The 14th Amendment clearly states that government has a right to abridge voting. And, of course, that's exactly what SCOTUS determined. Why you are denying reality is beyond me, Cardinal. I thought we were all here to teach when we're right and learn when we're wrong....?
    And why are you determined to ignore the 15th amendment?

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    The most important statistical factors in that vote were church attendance, age and political leaning. Race was actually one of those lowest statistically important factors in the prop 8 vote.
    I was actually talking about money and activism prior to the vote.

    Mormons and black churches played a big role.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    How about folks with multiple convictions for say, embezzlement and fraud, do you want them working at your bank or as your accountant?
    if its shown that they cannot live in adult society then they shouldnt be outside prison in the first place

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    And why are you determined to ignore the 15th amendment?
    Uhhhh, because of the SCOTUS ruling? And because servitude quite obviously refers to slavery.

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Unless a person determined to be mentally incompetent, I believe all adult citizens should be allowed to vote. No exceptions. If not allowed to vote, then the person would no longer have any tax obligations. "No taxation without representation."

    If a person is sent to prison because of a corrupt DA, sheriff and judge or due to a bad law, the person should be able to at least be able to vote against them.

    Once a person is released finally from prison, all rights should be restored otherwise.

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Someone in Wisconsin getting caught in possession of any amount of marijuana a second time becomes permanently ineligible to vote. That's after the 3.5 years in jail. First offense cultivation of four plants or more is also a felony. Do you think this is just?
    Yes. You deserve to be punished to full extent of the law. These idiots should know the penalty for breaking the law they are willingly breaking.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Two can play that game. Does anyone think that conservatives aren't coming to the defense of voter disenfranchisement because of their belief that it ultimately helps the Republican party?
    Republicans tend to also be tougher on crime, and more likely to argue that increasing democracy by spreading power to those most likely to be irresponsible with its exercise is harmful to good governance. However, yes, probably the realization that felons would likely overwhelmingly vote Democrat is part of the mix as well. So are you willing to admit that this is AG Holders' motivation, then? Do you think that having an Attorney General who seeks to use the power of his office to enhance the power of his political party - the idea that law enforcement should be partisan in nature - is a good thing, or a bad thing?

    Or would you like to stick to the defensibility of the laws themselves?
    I'm fine with that. These laws are both well within the States' powers, and are examples of responsible governance, to boot.

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