Page 24 of 25 FirstFirst ... 1422232425 LastLast
Results 231 to 240 of 242

Thread: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

  1. #231
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    01-22-17 @ 09:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    4,136

    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Don't think you've caught me up in some contradiction here. A person who has a compulsion to harm others should be monitored, and as I asked someone earlier, what harm is an ex-felon going to carry out with regards to voting? Beat someone to death with a voting booth? Removing the right to vote for any period of time after the completion of the sentence is arbitrary at best. After all, why remove voting? Why not remove, instead, driving privileges, or the right to marry, the right to deduct expenses for taxes? The right to free speech or freedom of religion?

    Why voting?
    Because voting has the biggest implications. Who you vote is at a fundamental level, the right to determine laws. Someone who breaks serious laws shouldn't have the right to elect representatives to make the law.

  2. #232
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    01-22-17 @ 09:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    4,136

    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    A lot of elements within our criminal justice system stem from a desire by people to create a clear delineation between criminals and regular people. As if it were genetic differences or some other type of fundamental aspect to a person that makes them one or the other. It is a self-aggrandizing delusion that people tell themselves to invoke a false sense of moral superiority. That is why we rush to label someone convicted of a crime as a different class of person. That is why people yell about personal responsibility but ignore the malignancy of poverty and its effects on crime. It is an urge to create an other. Keep in mind, of course, that the vast majority of released felons without their right to vote are non-violent drug offenders. And are poor. And have dark skin. It's all about an other. Stripping people who have served their sentences of the right to fully engage in society just further keeps them as an other. That's all this is really about.

    For example...




    Please support that assertion with some kind of evidence. Otherwise, you're just proclaiming yourself an intellectual superior to people who have suffered a harsher life than you have. It's just self-aggrandizement.
    First off you don't know that these felons have lived a harsher life then I. Where is your evidence?

    Second off what does the color of skin or income level have to do with it? So murder isn't murder when people of those categories are involved?

    Third off, only 2 states do not restore voting rights at some point in time. Serve time and complete probation and that's enough to get most ex felons their right to vote back.

  3. #233
    Sage
    Navy Pride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pacific NW
    Last Seen
    05-07-15 @ 02:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    39,883

    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/op...f=opinion&_r=0

    It's about goddamn time that such laws that fly hilariously in the face of the spirit of the constitution are confronted at the higher levels of government. While I doubt there's currently any political momentum to create Federal laws that overturn state disenfranchisement laws, maybe this will help start the public dialogue needed to do so. Voter disenfranchisement laws are are an utter travesty.

    To be honest I have a lot more sympathy for the close to 60.000.000 innocent babies who are defenseless in the womb and have been legally murdered since 1972........It kind of pales the 6,000,000 convicts who have murdered and raped innocent people. Why don't you lefties ever defend them?
    Last edited by Navy Pride; 02-20-14 at 11:14 PM.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

  4. #234
    Almost respectable

    Cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    35,013

    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    To be honest I have a lot more sympathy for the close to 60.000.000 innocent bab-
    Wrong thread.

  5. #235
    Pragmatic Idealist
    upsideguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rocky Mtn. High
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:55 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,081

    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The only reason Holder is opening his corrupt mouth is because he thinks he can bring in Democrat votes.
    What a ridiculous comment....

  6. #236
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,858
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/op...f=opinion&_r=0

    It's about goddamn time that such laws that fly hilariously in the face of the spirit of the constitution are confronted at the higher levels of government. While I doubt there's currently any political momentum to create Federal laws that overturn state disenfranchisement laws, maybe this will help start the public dialogue needed to do so. Voter disenfranchisement laws are are an utter travesty.
    This may be the first time I've ever agreed with anything Holder has said. Ex-con's should be able to exercise thier Rights.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  7. #237
    Almost respectable

    Cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    35,013

    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Because voting has the biggest implications. Who you vote is at a fundamental level, the right to determine laws. Someone who breaks serious laws shouldn't have the right to elect representatives to make the law.
    It has the the biggest voting implication...for ex felons. Of course, felons are still free to exercise their right to free speech, which can be argued to have just as much influence as voting itself (unless you want to argue that the $10,000,000,000 spent between 2002-2012 on campaigning by Republicans and Democrats combined was for nothing). And of course they're still free to donate to the party of their choice as well as to super PACS, and they're free to lobby their congressman (over half a billion spent by super PACS on the 2012 election alone, and over $25,000,000,000 by the top industries between 1998 and 2013) all of which can easily be said to be a lot more influential. Of course, in reality, most ex felons don't get a lot of air time, they're not particularly well known for their enormous campaign contributions, and most don't get a whole lot of face time with their congressman, but gee, whaddya know, they still have a vote. Unless you can take that away too.

    Point is, we're not stupid. It's a transparent strategy to remove the one ability they have to tangibly exercise a voice in their community and remove a political undesirable.

    How Much Much Are Super PACs Spending? - The Wall Street Journal
    Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets
    Campaign Spending Habits: Democrats v. Republicans - OpenSecrets Blog
    Last edited by Cardinal; 02-21-14 at 11:54 AM.

  8. #238
    Almost respectable

    Cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    35,013

    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Voting rights for felons on the table in several states

    And good news from Kentucky, which looks like it's on the track to re-enfranchising their ex-felons.

    Kentucky could be heading for a historic change this year as it moves closer to abolishing its law banning felons from voting, thanks to a bipartisan effort in the state Capitol and a big assist from Republican U.S. Sen. Rand Paul.

    The state has long had among the most restrictive felon voting rules, thus disenfranchising a high percentage of its voting-age population. Black residents have been disproportionately affected — more than one in five of voting age cannot cast a ballot.

  9. #239
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    01-22-17 @ 09:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    4,136

    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    It has the the biggest voting implication...for ex felons. Of course, felons are still free to exercise their right to free speech, which can be argued to have just as much influence as voting itself (unless you want to argue that the $10,000,000,000 spent between 2002-2012 on campaigning by Republicans and Democrats combined was for nothing). And of course they're still free to donate to the party of their choice as well as to super PACS, and they're free to lobby their congressman (over half a billion spent by super PACS on the 2012 election alone, and over $25,000,000,000 by the top industries between 1998 and 2013) all of which can easily be said to be a lot more influential. Of course, in reality, most ex felons don't get a lot of air time, they're not particularly well known for their enormous campaign contributions, and most don't get a whole lot of face time with their congressman, but gee, whaddya know, they still have a vote. Unless you can take that away too.

    Point is, we're not stupid. It's a transparent strategy to remove the one ability they have to tangibly exercise a voice in their community and remove a political undesirable.

    How Much Much Are Super PACs Spending? - The Wall Street Journal
    Lobbying Spending Database | OpenSecrets
    Campaign Spending Habits: Democrats v. Republicans - OpenSecrets Blog
    Way to ignore the part where ex felons in nearly every state eventually can regain their right to vote.

    Rambling aside, you haven't made any good argument why those who break the law should be able to make the laws. I've given you a very good reason why they shouldn't, they've broken their contract with society (john Locke) and need to show they can reintegrate with society before they gain back rights such as voting. Now you may ask why only voting, and I'd respond that I'd favor taking away other rights too if they weren't unconstitutional. However taking away voting rights for felons has been upheld as constitutional several times.

  10. #240
    Almost respectable

    Cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    35,013

    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Way to ignore the part where ex felons in nearly every state eventually can regain their right to vote.
    So? Why would I focus on them? If they're automatically given the right to vote back, mazel tov.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Rambling aside, you haven't made any good argument why those who break the law should be able to make the laws. I've given you a very good reason why they shouldn't,
    You've given me your opinion why they shouldn't.

    they've broken their contract with society (john Locke) and need to show they can reintegrate with society before they gain back rights such as voting.
    If they can't be trusted after they've left prison then they shouldn't have been released to begin with.

    Now you may ask why only voting, and I'd respond that I'd favor taking away other rights too if they weren't unconstitutional.
    This could be argued to be cruel and unusual. And in fact, it has been argued to be such.

    However taking away voting rights for felons has been upheld as constitutional several times.
    Wrongly, I believe (although you could probably guess that). It makes a mockery of the concept of no taxation without representation.

Page 24 of 25 FirstFirst ... 1422232425 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •