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Thread: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    I don't know about the bar being set low. It seems the other 90% of the population doesn't have trouble staying out of federal prison.

    Like I said before. The "right" to vote is part of the social contract. You break it, you lose that right. Now we can say that maybe some felonies shouldn't be felonies and that's a fair point to be made. But if you think felons deserve all of their rights back without exception the moment they walk out of prison, then I suppose you also should add how you also think that pedophiles should be allowed to live next door to schools. Right?
    Continue to monitor the paedophile as he has a compulsion to harm minors, but let him vote. Easy peasy.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 02-16-14 at 06:13 PM.

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/op...f=opinion&_r=0

    It's about goddamn time that such laws that fly hilariously in the face of the spirit of the constitution are confronted at the higher levels of government. While I doubt there's currently any political momentum to create Federal laws that overturn state disenfranchisement laws, maybe this will help start the public dialogue needed to do so. Voter disenfranchisement laws are are an utter travesty.
    I've already touched base on this issue the other day... But I would love to add another story here about voting and voting rights.

    Last week some group held a rally (I think it was sponsored by some black organization or the ACLU) in response to voter ID laws, and the kicker was that one of the prerequisites to get into the rally was to a) show and ID and b) have one on you at all times.

    Talk about irony, stupidity or even mooting your own damn protest...

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Continue to monitor the paedophile as he has a compulsion to harm minors, but let him vote. Easy peasy.
    Why continue to monitor them? By your logic once they have served time the government has no right to put restrictions on them of any kind. I disagree. Felons deserve to lose the right to vote for at least 5 or so years after being released, which is the status quo in the majority of states. If felons want their rights back (voting included), they should have to show they can reintegrate into society without continuing to break it's laws.

    I'll repeat it again, social contract. Easy peasy.

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Why continue to monitor them? By your logic once they have served time the government has no right to put restrictions on them of any kind. I disagree. Felons deserve to lose the right to vote for at least 5 or so years after being released, which is the status quo in the majority of states. If felons want their rights back (voting included), they should have to show they can reintegrate into society without continuing to break it's laws.

    I'll repeat it again, social contract. Easy peasy.
    Don't think you've caught me up in some contradiction here. A person who has a compulsion to harm others should be monitored, and as I asked someone earlier, what harm is an ex-felon going to carry out with regards to voting? Beat someone to death with a voting booth? Removing the right to vote for any period of time after the completion of the sentence is arbitrary at best. After all, why remove voting? Why not remove, instead, driving privileges, or the right to marry, the right to deduct expenses for taxes? The right to free speech or freedom of religion?

    Why voting?

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I've already touched base on this issue the other day... But I would love to add another story here about voting and voting rights.

    Last week some group held a rally (I think it was sponsored by some black organization or the ACLU) in response to voter ID laws, and the kicker was that one of the prerequisites to get into the rally was to a) show and ID and b) have one on you at all times.

    Talk about irony, stupidity or even mooting your own damn protest...
    Amusing on a low level, but irrelevant.

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Don't think you've caught me up in some contradiction here. A person who has a compulsion to harm others should be monitored, and as I asked someone earlier, what harm is an ex-felon going to carry out with regards to voting? Beat someone to death with a voting booth? Removing the right to vote for any period of time after the completion of the sentence is arbitrary at best. After all, why remove voting? Why not remove, instead, driving privileges, or the right to marry, the right to deduct expenses for taxes? The right to free speech or freedom of religion?

    Why voting?
    The other things you mention are rights of the person. Voting is an exercise of civil authority which can rightfully be denied to felons.

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    The other things you mention are rights of the person. Voting is an exercise of civil authority which can rightfully be denied to felons.
    First, we're talking about ex-felons, not those currently serving sentences. Second, your post doesn't explain the focus on voting as a secondary punishment in addition to the sentence.

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    First, we're talking about ex-felons, not those currently serving sentences. Second, your post doesn't explain the focus on voting as a secondary punishment in addition to the sentence.
    Ok. My support for denial of felon voting rights is not based on punishment, but simply based on that felons are less likely to exercise governmental authority well.

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    A lot of elements within our criminal justice system stem from a desire by people to create a clear delineation between criminals and regular people. As if it were genetic differences or some other type of fundamental aspect to a person that makes them one or the other. It is a self-aggrandizing delusion that people tell themselves to invoke a false sense of moral superiority. That is why we rush to label someone convicted of a crime as a different class of person. That is why people yell about personal responsibility but ignore the malignancy of poverty and its effects on crime. It is an urge to create an other. Keep in mind, of course, that the vast majority of released felons without their right to vote are non-violent drug offenders. And are poor. And have dark skin. It's all about an other. Stripping people who have served their sentences of the right to fully engage in society just further keeps them as an other. That's all this is really about.

    For example...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Ok. My support for denial of felon voting rights is not based on punishment, but simply based on that felons are less likely to exercise governmental authority well.

    Please support that assertion with some kind of evidence. Otherwise, you're just proclaiming yourself an intellectual superior to people who have suffered a harsher life than you have. It's just self-aggrandizement.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So we shouldn't change the law on potted flowers, but fix the problem by giving back rights to all felons?
    Yes, simply because once justice has been served, bills of attainder are proscribed.

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