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Thread: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

  1. #101
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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Interesting. So you would agree that it's acceptable to ban guns so long as it's the state making that decision?
    No, that is not what I said at all. Restricting rights after due process, whether to vote or keep and bear arms, is definitely constitutional and within the right of any state.
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  2. #102
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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. We do not - thank God - live in a Democracy. We live in a Representative Republic.
    Standard semantic nonsense. A republic is a type of democracy, but not a direct democracy. Squares and rectangles, and whatnot.

    2. The ability to exercise the franchise is not the single fundamental right. If you were going to argue for one, that one would probably be self-defense, or speech. You do not have a right to vote. You have a right not to have the vote taken from you for a variety of explicitly and narrowly defined reasons.
    It's the single fundamental right to a democracy because without voting it isn't a democracy. Democracy can exist without the right to free speech or self defense, although without free speech it's probably not a very useful model of government. Like voting, both are also taken away under the right circumstance.

    And in every one of those cases, the burden is on others to justify restricting a right, not on me to justify why I should have it in the first place.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  3. #103
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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Standard semantic nonsense. A republic is a type of democracy, but not a direct democracy. Squares and rectangles, and whatnot.
    No, it's a distinction with a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It's the single fundamental right to a democracy because without voting it isn't a democracy.
    There is not, nor has there ever been a Republic that doesn't/didn't have exemptions to their voting "rights".

  4. #104
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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    While some countries do in fact give their felons the right to vote, that is for a different debate. The operative word in this thread is ex-felon, as in, those who have already served their sentences and paid their debt to society.
    Time served is not the only form of a debt to society. Losing voting rights is also a debt.

    John Locke talked about the social contract to society in exchange for rights. Breaking the contract equals losing some of those rights, permanently.
    Last edited by ReformCollege; 02-12-14 at 03:16 PM.

  5. #105
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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Time served is not the only form of a debt to society. Losing voting rights counts as one of those debts.
    And it's unjust. It makes a mockery of no taxation without representation and the bar is set ridiculously low for for how easy it is to strip a person of their voting rights besides.

  6. #106
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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    And it's unjust. It makes a mockery of no taxation without representation and the bar is set ridiculously low for for how easy it is to strip a person of their voting rights besides.
    I of course disagree on both points. They had full representation before they committed the felony (in some states, multiple felonies). And to a large extent still do even while their vote is suspended. And no, I don't know of any state where the bar is set too low in this.

  7. #107
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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by american View Post
    the only reason holder is opening his corrupt mouth is because he thinks he can bring in democrat votes.
    bingo!
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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    No one should lose their right to vote at any point.
    Or lose their right to gun ownership.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Let me ask you, Maggie: do you believe that it's acceptable that someone who's served their sentence and repaid their debt to society should never be allowed to vote again?
    It really depends on what they did. What if they were convicted of voter fraud?

    If so then what if they were denied gun ownership because they used one in a robbery.

    Or denied the ability to come within so many feet of a school because they molested children.

    It's not cut and dried.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: 6 Million Americans Without a Voice

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The only reason Holder is opening his corrupt mouth is because he thinks he can bring in Democrat votes.
    That is true. But it is the way democracy works. If the delegate does, what I voted for? Let the egoistic bastard have the job.

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