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Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict nonpr

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Oops! No wonder Lois took the 5th. She's genuinely worried about her ass going to prison.

The Obama administration’s Treasury Department and former IRS official Lois Lerner conspired to draft new 501(c)(4) regulations to restrict the activity of conservative groups in a way that would not be disclosed publicly, according to the House Committee on Ways and Means.

The Treasury Department and Lerner started devising the new rules “off-plan,” meaning that their plans would not be published on the public schedule. They planned the new rules in 2012, while the IRS targeting of conservative groups was in full swing, and not after the scandal broke in order to clarify regulations as the administration has suggested.


Email: IRS, Treasury drafted rules to restrict nonprofits | The Daily Caller]
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

What's the old saying? "Something's rotten in Denmark"?

No ... not that one ... i know ... 'where there's bull****, it smells like bull****'.

Yeah, that's the one. This is gonna get ugly.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

What's the old saying? "Something's rotten in Denmark"?

No ... not that one ... i know ... 'where there's bull****, it smells like bull****'.

Yeah, that's the one. This is gonna get ugly.

"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and ****s like a duck...it must be a duck"
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

Except, what about this??

FBI Claims “No Evidence” of Wrongdoing in IRS Targeting Scandal
Read more at FBI Claims
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

Except, what about this??

FBI Claims “No Evidence” of Wrongdoing in IRS Targeting Scandal
Read more at FBI Claims


Election Law Center: DOJ Tampering With Congressional Investigation of IRS Abuse of Election Integrity Groups?

"The House’s chief investigator says the FBI is stonewalling his inquiry into whether the agency and the Internal Revenue Service targeted conservative group True the Vote for special scrutiny, and Rep. Darrell E. Issa is now threatening subpoenas to pry loose the information from FBI Director James B. Comey Jr.

what about this??
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

Except, what about this??

FBI Claims “No Evidence” of Wrongdoing in IRS Targeting Scandal
Read more at FBI Claims
One FedGov agency covering another FedGov agency's ass....duh.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

While Obama is in office and the DoJ is led by his activist buddy, Learner has no worries.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

Except, what about this??

FBI Claims “No Evidence” of Wrongdoing in IRS Targeting Scandal
Read more at FBI Claims

This is a case of where does one put their trust. Appointing an avid Obama supporter/donor to investigate the IRS means to me personally, Holder and the president are not really interested in finding out if the IRS did anything wrong or not. I know the Republicans think this is the administration's misuse of a government organization to silence their speech. Democrats firmly believe nothing wrong took place and has jumped to the defense of the administration and the IRS without know any facts. This is normal politics. So I usually discount both sides and wait.

But the appointment of a very partisan gal to investigate this has raised my eyebrow, throw into the mix that I heard that none of the conservative groups involved had been interviewed yet by her or the FBI after almost two years and that most of the 292 conservative groups have as yet not received a ruling one way or the other, keeping them in limbo. That makes me say Hmm, perhaps a cover up or perhaps the administration is just trying to keep these group from being heard until after the 2014 election.

That gal Holder appointed to investigate this thing is just like Ed Meese, Nixon's AG appointing one of Nixon's avid supporters/donors to investigate Watergate. Not that this IRS thing is even close to Watergate, but the appointment part is a good comparison.

So do I trust the administration, Holder et al to do an honest investigation and punish anyone if wrong doing is found? No, I don't. If the administration was truly interested in finding out the truth and the facts, an independent prosecutor or council or whatever it is called would be appointed to ensure no politics become involved.

Is there a there, there. I do not know. But with the appointment of this gal and finding out no resolution to the filings have yet been rendered, along with still not interviewing those who claim they were wronged, this has moved the IRS thing from me not paying much attention to it at all up a few notches into the category of this needs constant attention.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

This is dissapointing and all, but will it change anything? We should not be taxing ANY organization in the first place. Get rid of federal corporate taxes, and the problem is solved. There would be no power to abuse. Corporate income tax brings in relatively little as is, and the money corporations would save, would end up in paychecks or sales, which would then be taxed. Its a win win. Govt gets its taxes, people get bigger paychecks, we get smaller govt and less corruption.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

This is a case of where does one put their trust. Appointing an avid Obama supporter/donor to investigate the IRS means to me personally, Holder and the president are not really interested in finding out if the IRS did anything wrong or not. I know the Republicans think this is the administration's misuse of a government organization to silence their speech. Democrats firmly believe nothing wrong took place and has jumped to the defense of the administration and the IRS without know any facts. This is normal politics. So I usually discount both sides and wait.

But the appointment of a very partisan gal to investigate this has raised my eyebrow, throw into the mix that I heard that none of the conservative groups involved had been interviewed yet by her or the FBI after almost two years and that most of the 292 conservative groups have as yet not received a ruling one way or the other, keeping them in limbo. That makes me say Hmm, perhaps a cover up or perhaps the administration is just trying to keep these group from being heard until after the 2014 election.

That gal Holder appointed to investigate this thing is just like Ed Meese, Nixon's AG appointing one of Nixon's avid supporters/donors to investigate Watergate. Not that this IRS thing is even close to Watergate, but the appointment part is a good comparison.

So do I trust the administration, Holder et al to do an honest investigation and punish anyone if wrong doing is found? No, I don't. If the administration was truly interested in finding out the truth and the facts, an independent prosecutor or council or whatever it is called would be appointed to ensure no politics become involved.

Is there a there, there. I do not know. But with the appointment of this gal and finding out no resolution to the filings have yet been rendered, along with still not interviewing those who claim they were wronged, this has moved the IRS thing from me not paying much attention to it at all up a few notches into the category of this needs constant attention.

I put my trust nowhere. Americans should never trust their government! That was established at the founding. In fact, could we trust our government, we should have never needed the People's Bill of Rights. Which essentially safeguards the individual from the untrustworthy governments, overreach. I only posted what I did because I find it humorous that partisans think such cover only happens when the opposing party is in power, GAWD, this thread and sooooooooooooooooo many like it! Will it ever end???
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

I put my trust nowhere. Americans should never trust their government! That was established at the founding. In fact, could we trust our government, we should have never needed the People's Bill of Rights. Which essentially safeguards the individual from the untrustworthy governments, overreach. I only posted what I did because I find it humorous that partisans think such cover only happens when the opposing party is in power, GAWD, this thread and sooooooooooooooooo many like it! Will it ever end???

I got you, no it will never end. You are correct and right on the money. When my party does something it is always 100% correct and good, when the other party does the same thing, it is always 100% evil, wrong and bad. Such is the nature of our political beast today.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

I got you, no it will never end. You are correct and right on the money. When my party does something it is always 100% correct and good, when the other party does the same thing, it is always 100% evil, wrong and bad. Such is the nature of our political beast today.

Which is why I continue to say that the partisan is our enemy, if the people insisted, I mean to say that if people were Americans first and democrats or republicans second, and the party in power was held accountable by all, then we would have progress. And I don't mean that the parties need to loose their individual ideologies. I'm referring to presidents constant attempts to go around congress, loop hole our constitution, cover up mistake and wrong doing. If we could all agree to that, even when it's our man in power, we could go forward with far less corruption.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

When Obama was being interviewed by O'Reilly, and was asked about this, what did he say? "Not one smidgin of corruption"?

Looks like Obama is doing what Obama does: Lie to the people in a bold and bald faced manner.

(*Yawn*) Same old ****, different day.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

Oops! No wonder Lois took the 5th. She's genuinely worried about her ass going to prison.

You do realize that these 501(c)(4) groups are operating illegally in an attempt to bypass the public disclosure requirements of PACs; an abuse made possible with the Citizens United ruling. By law, theses groups must operate exclusively for the purpose of social welfare. This was changed in the 50's by the IRS to predominantly.

Conservative groups were not targeted at a higher rate than any other political group. Conservative groups applied at a rate that was roughly 5x that of liberal groups, even though only about 4x as many were investigated. The real scandal is that so many were approved.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

When Obama was being interviewed by O'Reilly, and was asked about this, what did he say? "Not one smidgin of corruption"?

Looks like Obama is doing what Obama does: Lie to the people in a bold and bald faced manner.

(*Yawn*) Same old ****, different day.

It looks like Obama is doing what presidents do, lie because their partisan base allows them to.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

Which is why I continue to say that the partisan is our enemy, if the people insisted, I mean to say that if people were Americans first and democrats or republicans second, and the party in power was held accountable by all, then we would have progress. And I don't mean that the parties need to loose their individual ideologies. I'm referring to presidents constant attempts to go around congress, loop hole our constitution, cover up mistake and wrong doing. If we could all agree to that, even when it's our man in power, we could go forward with far less corruption.

A long time ago someone said that we really have only one political party, but it has two wings. The Republican wing and the Democratic wing. If ones looks behind the scenes to those huge big moneyed folks who donate their millions to the two parties, quite a lot of them donate to both parties. I am sure they are not doing this out of civic pride. Some of the companies that has done this in the past are Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, UBS AG, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch and more are all on my list from the 2008 campaign as donating to both McCain and Obama. I haven't found an updated list for 2012 yet.

I think when these moneyed people donate their millions, their tens of millions to the political parties they are in essence buying them. Both parties owe their heart and soul to these people, not to the electorate or America. We voters are nothing but a necessary evil to them, so we have been propagandized into believing there are huge differences between the two parties when in reality there is not. If you take a good look at how Bush II governed and how Obama has governed, they are just about the same. Only the rhetoric, the slogans and talking points are polar opposites.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

A long time ago someone said that we really have only one political party, but it has two wings. The Republican wing and the Democratic wing. If ones looks behind the scenes to those huge big moneyed folks who donate their millions to the two parties, quite a lot of them donate to both parties. I am sure they are not doing this out of civic pride. Some of the companies that has done this in the past are Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, UBS AG, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch and more are all on my list from the 2008 campaign as donating to both McCain and Obama. I haven't found an updated list for 2012 yet.

I think when these moneyed people donate their millions, their tens of millions to the political parties they are in essence buying them. Both parties owe their heart and soul to these people, not to the electorate or America. We voters are nothing but a necessary evil to them, so we have been propagandized into believing there are huge differences between the two parties when in reality there is not. If you take a good look at how Bush II governed and how Obama has governed, they are just about the same. Only the rhetoric, the slogans and talking points are polar opposites.

Spot on brother!!! If only Americans could see that collectively, we'd get their attention in a hurry. You know most people disagree with you, on that, right?
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

You do realize that these 501(c)(4) groups are operating illegally in an attempt to bypass the public disclosure requirements of PACs; an abuse made possible with the Citizens United ruling. By law, theses groups must operate exclusively for the purpose of social welfare. This was changed in the 50's by the IRS to predominantly.

Conservative groups were not targeted at a higher rate than any other political group. Conservative groups applied at a rate that was roughly 5x that of liberal groups, even though only about 4x as many were investigated. The real scandal is that so many were approved.

Really? Wow. And how is it that these groups have been allowed to operated illegally all this time. Given such "revelations" I'd think they would certainly have been raided by now.

Is it possible you could be mistaken?
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

When Obama was being interviewed by O'Reilly, and was asked about this, what did he say? "Not one smidgin of corruption"?

Looks like Obama is doing what Obama does: Lie to the people in a bold and bald faced manner.

(*Yawn*) Same old ****, different day.

all you need to do to substantiate your post is to show us where any smidgen of corruption was found
FBI says none exists
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

Spot on brother!!! If only Americans could see that collectively, we'd get their attention in a hurry. You know most people disagree with you, on that, right?

Oh yeah, not a problem. Those are the ones unable to remove their very deep red or blue colored glasses. They are very much like baseball fans who cheer their favorite team. Except they cheer the R and the D and do not care one iota what is happening behind the scenes, where they get their money from, whom they owe for that money. I do not think they even care how they govern or do as long as it is their party and not the other. I use to be that way. But working for Perot back in the 90's, he taught me how to step back, put cotton in my ears to stop all the rhetoric, slogans, talking points each party throws at you, to remove those deep red or blue colored glasses and only look at how they govern. What I have seen is not much difference. Both parties govern very much similar.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

all you need to do to substantiate your post is to show us where any smidgen of corruption was found
FBI says none exists

And a Congressional committee says there is.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

And a Congressional committee says there is.

the republicans on the committee or the committee
and what are the facts they have used to support their conclusion
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

Really? Wow. And how is it that these groups have been allowed to operated illegally all this time. Given such "revelations" I'd think they would certainly have been raided by now.

Is it possible you could be mistaken?
No.

No one bothered to enforce the law because no one gained any benefit by breaking it. It's very simple. Before Citizens United, any organization that wanted to electioneer (ie to run political adds etc...) had to do so with a separate pool of funds regulated by the FEC. That meant that donations used to influence elections had to be public, regardless of the type of organization. Before 2009, If you wanted to form a tax exempt group to run issue adds, you'd form a 527.

Citizens United removed this restriction. Now corporations, unions, and non-profits are able to electioneer with general treasury funds, rather than a specially regulated account. In short, it moved the responsibility for electioneering regulation from the FEC to the IRS. Lawyers determined that they could effectively circumvent the disclosure requirement by forming a relatively obscure type of non-profit 501c4.

You should not be upset that conservative 501c4 groups were "targeted" by the IRS. You should not be upset that liberal 501c4 groups were "targeted". Those groups and many others DESERVED to be targeted. They are not social welfare groups, they are political groups which should be non-profit 527's. What you should be upset with is that political groups were attempting to circumvent the law through a regulatory loophole exposed by Citizens United.

If you disagree, just explain why these groups filed as 501c4's instead of tax exempt 527's.
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

No.

No one bothered to enforce the law because no one gained any benefit by breaking it. It's very simple. Before Citizens United, any organization that wanted to electioneer (ie to run political adds etc...) had to do so with a separate pool of funds regulated by the FEC. That meant that donations used to influence elections had to be public, regardless of the type of organization. Before 2009, If you wanted to form a tax exempt group to run issue adds, you'd form a 527.

Citizens United removed this restriction. Now corporations, unions, and non-profits are able to electioneer with general treasury funds, rather than a specially regulated account. In short, it moved the responsibility for electioneering regulation from the FEC to the IRS. Lawyers determined that they could effectively circumvent the disclosure requirement by forming a relatively obscure type of non-profit 501c4.

You should not be upset that conservative 501c4 groups were "targeted" by the IRS. You should not be upset that liberal 501c4 groups were "targeted". Those groups and many others DESERVED to be targeted. They are not social welfare groups, they are political groups which should be non-profit 527's. What you should be upset with is that political groups were attempting to circumvent the law through a regulatory loophole exposed by Citizens United.

If you disagree, just explain why these groups filed as 501c4's instead of tax exempt 527's.

So how have they been allowed to operate illegally, as you stated? If they are illegal, why haven't they been exposed, and the people responsible brought to justice?
 
Re: Email: IRS’s Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

the republicans on the committee or the committee
and what are the facts they have used to support their conclusion

I believe they are having hearings. And what did the FBI provide?
 
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