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Thread: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict nonpr

  1. #61
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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Where is this right written down? I see the one about me being free from govt searches (privacy), but I dont see one about you having a right to know who I support for office.
    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/09-559.pdf

    Scalia concurring in judgement:
    Requiring people to stand up in public for their political acts fosters civic courage, without which democracy is doomed. For my par t , I do not look forward to a society which, thanks to the Supreme Court, campaigns anonymously (McIntyre) and even exercises the direct democracy of initiative and referendum hidden from public scrutiny and protected from the accountability of criticism. This does not resemble the Home of the Brave.

    Even Scalia argues that you do not have a right to anonymous political speech. Moreover, allowing such speech is hazardous to our democracy. Since you do not have a right to donate anonymously, and by current statute, donations to organizations allowed to make political speech must disclose their donors, you do not have a right to donate to political campaigns anonymously. Ergo, the public has a right to know who contributes to whom.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Oops! No wonder Lois took the 5th. She's genuinely worried about her ass going to prison.



    I predict that she won't go to prison.

    Do you want to make a large bet on this?

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    I absolutely have a right to know which elected officials you are donating to.

    Because they're the ones who make the rules, there's a huge conflict of interest that exists whenever you donate money to a campaign or engage in any electioneering. Disclosure is necessary to prevent corruption. If a random individual spends a few million dollars getting Joe Schmo elected, and then Joe Schmo earmarks a billiion dollar development; is it payback or good policy?

    I shouldn't know if you donate money to the NRA. But the public has a right to know when you donate money to electioneering.
    You don't have a right to know who donate money to for the same reason you don't have a right to know who I vote for; it would make me subject to intimidation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    I predict that she won't go to prison.

    Do you want to make a large bet on this?
    Oh, I know she won't go to prison! That's what makes this so outrageous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You don't have a right to know who donate money to for the same reason you don't have a right to know who I vote for; it would make me subject to intimidation.
    While I appreciate the sentiment, this has been argued in front of the Supreme Court and has lost, repeatedly. The courts have found that the government has a compelling reason to force disclosure because the absence of disclosure promotes corruption.

    You can go here and look up contributions by anyone to anyone. Donor Lookup: Find Individual and Soft Money Contributors | OpenSecrets If you or I wish to make an impact politically, we give to a campaign and our donations are public. But if you have a few million dollars to give, you can anonymously fund an 501c4 to skirt the law and avoid disclosure. One rule for normal people, a different rule for the super wealthy.... M'erica.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/09-559.pdf

    Scalia concurring in judgement:
    Requiring people to stand up in public for their political acts fosters civic courage, without which democracy is doomed. For my par t , I do not look forward to a society which, thanks to the Supreme Court, campaigns anonymously (McIntyre) and even exercises the direct democracy of initiative and referendum hidden from public scrutiny and protected from the accountability of criticism. This does not resemble the Home of the Brave.

    Even Scalia argues that you do not have a right to anonymous political speech. Moreover, allowing such speech is hazardous to our democracy. Since you do not have a right to donate anonymously, and by current statute, donations to organizations allowed to make political speech must disclose their donors, you do not have a right to donate to political campaigns anonymously. Ergo, the public has a right to know who contributes to whom.
    Except you didnt answer the question. If you think you have some legal right to publicize my private speech without my consent, just show me where that right is in the constitution.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    While I appreciate the sentiment, this has been argued in front of the Supreme Court and has lost, repeatedly. The courts have found that the government has a compelling reason to force disclosure because the absence of disclosure promotes corruption.

    You can go here and look up contributions by anyone to anyone. Donor Lookup: Find Individual and Soft Money Contributors | OpenSecrets If you or I wish to make an impact politically, we give to a campaign and our donations are public. But if you have a few million dollars to give, you can anonymously fund an 501c4 to skirt the law and avoid disclosure. One rule for normal people, a different rule for the super wealthy.... M'erica.
    Thats irrelevant. Courts dont make laws. They decide cases.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Thats irrelevant. Courts dont make laws. They decide cases.
    The law says that disclosure is mandatory for electioneering. Courts have confirmed that congress has this power.

    So yes, you have the freedom to run campaign adds. And we have the freedom to know who's running them.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The law says that disclosure is mandatory for electioneering. Courts have confirmed that congress has this power.

    So yes, you have the freedom to run campaign adds. And we have the freedom to know who's running them.
    The constitution is supreme to federal laws, and it says you dont. You have yet to show me any language in the constitution that give you this right to know who I support.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    The constitution is supreme to federal laws, and it says you dont. You have yet to show me any language in the constitution that give you this right to know who I support.
    So the laws that mandate it are unconstitutional?

    I'm not saying that disclosure is a constitutional mandate. I'm saying that disclosure is the law and the constitution provides the power to mandate disclosure of donors to funds used for electioneering.

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