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Thread: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict nonpr

  1. #21
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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    all you need to do to substantiate your post is to show us where any smidgen of corruption was found
    FBI says none exists
    And a Congressional committee says there is.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    And a Congressional committee says there is.
    the republicans on the committee or the committee
    and what are the facts they have used to support their conclusion
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  3. #23
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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Really? Wow. And how is it that these groups have been allowed to operated illegally all this time. Given such "revelations" I'd think they would certainly have been raided by now.

    Is it possible you could be mistaken?
    No.

    No one bothered to enforce the law because no one gained any benefit by breaking it. It's very simple. Before Citizens United, any organization that wanted to electioneer (ie to run political adds etc...) had to do so with a separate pool of funds regulated by the FEC. That meant that donations used to influence elections had to be public, regardless of the type of organization. Before 2009, If you wanted to form a tax exempt group to run issue adds, you'd form a 527.

    Citizens United removed this restriction. Now corporations, unions, and non-profits are able to electioneer with general treasury funds, rather than a specially regulated account. In short, it moved the responsibility for electioneering regulation from the FEC to the IRS. Lawyers determined that they could effectively circumvent the disclosure requirement by forming a relatively obscure type of non-profit 501c4.

    You should not be upset that conservative 501c4 groups were "targeted" by the IRS. You should not be upset that liberal 501c4 groups were "targeted". Those groups and many others DESERVED to be targeted. They are not social welfare groups, they are political groups which should be non-profit 527's. What you should be upset with is that political groups were attempting to circumvent the law through a regulatory loophole exposed by Citizens United.

    If you disagree, just explain why these groups filed as 501c4's instead of tax exempt 527's.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    No.

    No one bothered to enforce the law because no one gained any benefit by breaking it. It's very simple. Before Citizens United, any organization that wanted to electioneer (ie to run political adds etc...) had to do so with a separate pool of funds regulated by the FEC. That meant that donations used to influence elections had to be public, regardless of the type of organization. Before 2009, If you wanted to form a tax exempt group to run issue adds, you'd form a 527.

    Citizens United removed this restriction. Now corporations, unions, and non-profits are able to electioneer with general treasury funds, rather than a specially regulated account. In short, it moved the responsibility for electioneering regulation from the FEC to the IRS. Lawyers determined that they could effectively circumvent the disclosure requirement by forming a relatively obscure type of non-profit 501c4.

    You should not be upset that conservative 501c4 groups were "targeted" by the IRS. You should not be upset that liberal 501c4 groups were "targeted". Those groups and many others DESERVED to be targeted. They are not social welfare groups, they are political groups which should be non-profit 527's. What you should be upset with is that political groups were attempting to circumvent the law through a regulatory loophole exposed by Citizens United.

    If you disagree, just explain why these groups filed as 501c4's instead of tax exempt 527's.
    So how have they been allowed to operate illegally, as you stated? If they are illegal, why haven't they been exposed, and the people responsible brought to justice?

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the republicans on the committee or the committee
    and what are the facts they have used to support their conclusion
    I believe they are having hearings. And what did the FBI provide?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Oh yeah, not a problem. Those are the ones unable to remove their very deep red or blue colored glasses. They are very much like baseball fans who cheer their favorite team. Except they cheer the R and the D and do not care one iota what is happening behind the scenes, where they get their money from, whom they owe for that money. I do not think they even care how they govern or do as long as it is their party and not the other. I use to be that way. But working for Perot back in the 90's, he taught me how to step back, put cotton in my ears to stop all the rhetoric, slogans, talking points each party throws at you, to remove those deep red or blue colored glasses and only look at how they govern. What I have seen is not much difference. Both parties govern very much similar.
    Yep. The day America collectively realizes that is the day the cockroaches run for cover. But alas, look around this thread at the partisan finger pointing!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I believe they are having hearings. And what did the FBI provide?
    this:
    The right’s boneheaded analogy: No, Christie’s debacle is not similar to the IRS case - Salon.com
    It [FBI] announced that no one will be prosecuted in the IRS mess, because it found that the Tea Party ďtargetingĒ was part of a larger, poorly executed effort to handle a flood of new political groups on the left and the right claiming exemptions. The ham-handed process represented bad management, not an ideological vendetta.
    your turn. what EVIDENCE of corruption has the committee found
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Yep. The day America collectively realizes that is the day the cockroaches run for cover. But alas, look around this thread at the partisan finger pointing!!
    Most people believe what they want to believe. They hear what they want to hear. The majority of Americans do not like what they see in politics today, but they also want to believe one party or the other can change that not realizing it is both parties that is the cause. As long as both parties owe their heart and soul to those who give them their hundreds of millions such as corporations, lobbyists, wall street, super pacs, real rich individuals and the likes, neither party will do what is good for America. Both parties will have to take care first those who give them their millions even if it is bad for America as a whole.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    You do realize that these 501(c)(4) groups are operating illegally in an attempt to bypass the public disclosure requirements of PACs; an abuse made possible with the Citizens United ruling. By law, theses groups must operate exclusively for the purpose of social welfare. This was changed in the 50's by the IRS to predominantly.

    Conservative groups were not targeted at a higher rate than any other political group. Conservative groups applied at a rate that was roughly 5x that of liberal groups, even though only about 4x as many were investigated. The real scandal is that so many were approved.
    Why are their applications being held in limbo for months, even years rather than being denied outright, on appropriate grounds?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Email: IRSís Lerner, Treasury Department secretly drafted new rules to restrict n

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Except, what about this??

    FBI Claims ďNo EvidenceĒ of Wrongdoing in IRS Targeting Scandal
    Read more at FBI Claims
    Other than being totally off topic; what aboit it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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