• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Edition

The General

The General

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2013
Messages
167
Reaction score
48
Location
Not to your left
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140116/13543425909/law-enforcement-is-not-about-generating-revenue-speed-trap-booking-fee-edition.shtml

"Martin claims he was just trying to make the road "safer." Arguably, he was. Drivers were slowing down after reading his sign (and waving to the cop in the unmarked SUV). In that way, his ends were no different than the cop's: discourage speeding. But the cop arresting Martin felt the sign "interfered with enforcement duties." But unless Mrozinski had a quota to fill -- something that has been ruled illegal nearly everywhere -- the lack of speeders meant there was nothing to enforce."

Here how you stop Police Quotas. Make it law that they can not write more than 15 tickets a week, every one else they pull over gets a warning. Any more and the cop will be fined.

How do you think it should be taken care of?
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

I think quotas for law enforcement is an absolutely horrendous concept, but I don't think we should put an upper limit on law enforcement. There just needs to be better oversight and regulation, and their funding should not be tied to how many tickets they issue. The money received from tickets should go into a completely separate government budget.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

The General said:
Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Edition | Techdirt

"Martin claims he was just trying to make the road "safer." Arguably, he was. Drivers were slowing down after reading his sign (and waving to the cop in the unmarked SUV). In that way, his ends were no different than the cop's: discourage speeding. But the cop arresting Martin felt the sign "interfered with enforcement duties." But unless Mrozinski had a quota to fill -- something that has been ruled illegal nearly everywhere -- the lack of speeders meant there was nothing to enforce."

Here how you stop Police Quotas. Make it law that they can not write more than 15 tickets a week, every one else they pull over gets a warning. Any more and the cop will be fined.

How do you think it should be taken care of?
Click to expand...

Quotas ARE a horrendous concept. I'd love to see the cops pull over EVERY SINGLE SPEEDER on the road and give them a ticket for everything they deserve. Maybe then we'll get some more sensible drivers on the road because everyone else's licence will be suspended for multiple tickets.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

I've seen it now multiple times they're the ****ers speeding on the highway, limit around here on Highway is 110 in most places.

I'm just over that, they'll pass me at a decent pace of probably 120 or just above.

One time I was going down a single lane, cop behind me, tailgating my ass pretty hard because I'm sticking to speed limit of 50... ****er throws on his lights so he can pass me, saw him 1 mile up the road just parking up to set up a speed trap.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

Quotas are a joke. Pull all speeders. But I do have an issue with something else.

School zones.

There is a local town that has a major highway run through it. They put a school zone on this road. But the school is 2 blocks away. About 250 yards away. And I've never once seen a kid cross that road.

Talk about quotas? That right there is a travesty.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

I hate the road police in my country.

You can find some of the sneaky bastards lying in the bushes about 20-40m from the city exit when drivers usually put on the gas to go faster so that you don't drive with 50km/h all the way OUT of the city, you accelerate before it. And 20-30m before the exit, they catch you with 55km/h and bam, speed ticket. Bloody assholes.

Now I can say, that there are situations where this stuff is useful. I read a report of some country.. maybe Austria (could be another country)?? where speeding cameras are placed at dangerous corners or road places where traditionally, there were a lot of accidents. Well ever since they put the cameras there AND a notice on the side of the road that there is a speeding camera at X meters in front, people slowed down and the number of accidents decreased dramatically. This was because people who were confident drivers would ignore safety regulations because you know... why drive with 50km/h or 40km/h whenever it says... you know you can push the limit a bit... but they're afraid of the speed ticket so it got enforced and things got better.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

RabidAlpaca said:
I think quotas for law enforcement is an absolutely horrendous concept, but I don't think we should put an upper limit on law enforcement. There just needs to be better oversight and regulation, and their funding should not be tied to how many tickets they issue. The money received from tickets should go into a completely separate government budget.
Click to expand...

My thinking behind the cap is you can't stop the corruption but you can limit it.

As for your Idea how about we send the funds to the Parks department or some other goverment agency that directly help us. Or why send it to the goverment at all why not send the money to a charity of some kind the question is which one. (Not the Red Cross they are corrupt).
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

The General said:
why not send the money to a charity of some kind the question is which one
Click to expand...

Fantastic idea.

All speed tickets go to a fund for helping victims of traffic accidents and drunk drivers.

Problem solved.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

The General said:
My thinking behind the cap is you can't stop the corruption but you can limit it.

As for your Idea how about we send the funds to the Parks department or some other goverment agency that directly help us. Or why send it to the goverment at all why not send the money to a charity of some kind the question is which one. (Not the Red Cross they are corrupt).
Click to expand...

I don't think there should be quotas, but at the same time why should we limit officers for pulling over people BREAKING THE LAW?

And yes, I disagree with them arresting the guy with the sign.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

The General said:
Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Edition | Techdirt

"Martin claims he was just trying to make the road "safer." Arguably, he was. Drivers were slowing down after reading his sign (and waving to the cop in the unmarked SUV). In that way, his ends were no different than the cop's: discourage speeding. But the cop arresting Martin felt the sign "interfered with enforcement duties." But unless Mrozinski had a quota to fill -- something that has been ruled illegal nearly everywhere -- the lack of speeders meant there was nothing to enforce." Here how you stop Police Quotas. Make it law that they can not write more than 15 tickets a week, every one else they pull over gets a warning. Any more and the cop will be fined. How do you think it should be taken care of?
Click to expand...

I want to say this came in here before, and if not this exact incident, one REEEEAAAAL damn close. The charge was illegal stop in the median, not interference.

Limited the number of tickets is a bad precedent, it just means I can speed my ass off toward the end of the month. Limiting the ability of LE to enforce safety measures seems counter productive, after all speeding is a violation.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

Tigger said:
Quotas ARE a horrendous concept. I'd love to see the cops pull over EVERY SINGLE SPEEDER on the road and give them a ticket for everything they deserve. Maybe then we'll get some more sensible drivers on the road because everyone else's licence will be suspended for multiple tickets.
Click to expand...

Then again the number of suspended drivers will go up and if you don't have many cop friends let me inform you, a lack of valid license doesn't stop 'bad drivers' from driving.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

Tigger said:
Quotas ARE a horrendous concept. I'd love to see the cops pull over EVERY SINGLE SPEEDER on the road and give them a ticket for everything they deserve. Maybe then we'll get some more sensible drivers on the road because everyone else's licence will be suspended for multiple tickets.
Click to expand...

Let me guess you are a perfect driver?
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

notquiteright said:
I want to say this came in here before, and if not this exact incident, one REEEEAAAAL damn close. The charge was illegal stop in the median, not interference.

Limited the number of tickets is a bad precedent, it just means I can speed my ass off toward the end of the month. Limiting the ability of LE to enforce safety measures seems counter productive, after all speeding is a violation.
Click to expand...

Good point but I am still counting on their greed to ticket people who generate big tickets, and for them to wait for that to happen. Basically if they can't do quantity do they will do quality. But this can not be done if we go with RabidAlpaca's idea.

I am assuming the more they brake the speed limit by the more they fine. I don't know how speeding tickets work. Is it just a stander amount each time or was I correct? I don't care to look it up my self (I don't drive, I take a bus)
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

notquiteright said:
Then again the number of suspended drivers will go up and if you don't have many cop friends let me inform you, a lack of valid license doesn't stop 'bad drivers' from driving.
Click to expand...

Under the plan, anyone caught driving with a suspended license would have their vehicle permanently taken by the police and have no chance of ever getting their license back.


CRUE CAB said:
Let me guess you are a perfect driver?
Click to expand...

Perfect, NO. However in almost 23 years of driving, I have never gotten a moving violation, and I've been in three accidents, none of which were my fault. Two parking tickets, one of which was BS; but both of which were paid within 24 hours of being issued. That's the grand total of my driving issues.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

The General said:
Good point but I am still counting on their greed to ticket people who generate big tickets, and for them to wait for that to happen. Basically if they can't do quantity do they will do quality. But this can not be done if we go with RabidAlpaca's idea. I am assuming the more they brake the speed limit by the more they fine. I don't know how speeding tickets work. Is it just a stander amount each time or was I correct? I don't care to look it up my self (I don't drive, I take a bus)
Click to expand...

Usually a cop gives 5 over the speed limit except in school zones. Then they often 'write down' the ticket to less than 10 over the speed limit, over that and the fines can climb very high. If you look at it this way- most people are 'saving' 10 minutes of travel time at the VERY MOST, if they speed over 10mph above the posted speed limit. Makes no real sense.

Very little of the ticket goes to the LE office, most goes to the civil authority- courts and the like. The cop has little incentive to write a ticket in most towns. Here in Oklahoma some very small towns use speed traps to generate money from those outside the county, but that would be the exception compared to the number of tickets written.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

Tigger said:
Under the plan, anyone caught driving with a suspended license would have their vehicle permanently taken by the police and have no chance of ever getting their license back.
Click to expand...

While you are DAMN fortunate to live in so tolerant a nation such as we have here, we all know you have little use for the Constitution.

Few would share your deep love of confiscation on so small an issue- the invalid license driver causing injury or death is a different matter but a simple driving on a suspended- not so much. As far as a suspended driver driving- again you are clueless on just how many are doing just that, making the loss permanent is of little deterrence.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

notquiteright said:
While you are DAMN fortunate to live in so tolerant a nation such as we have here, we all know you have little use for the Constitution.

Few would share your deep love of confiscation on so small an issue- the invalid license driver causing injury or death is a different matter but a simple driving on a suspended- not so much. As far as a suspended driver driving- again you are clueless on just how many are doing just that, making the loss permanent is of little deterrence.
Click to expand...

I have almost no effective use for the US Constitution and haven't throughout my life.

I don't give a **** who does or doesn't agree with me on this. I'm simply looking at it as a means to stop the problem. I am well aware of how many unlicensed drivers are out there. I just don't believe that many of them will be able to buy or borrow enough vehicles to constantly get themselves to work, as they get confiscated. Who will be stupid enough to loan a vehicle out to an unlicensed driver knowing that if they're stopped, the car is gone forever (even if the loan payments aren't)?
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

Here in san diego, there's lots of people pulled over about the 25th of the month. Every month like clockwork.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

The General said:
"Martin claims he was just trying to make the road "safer." Arguably, he was.
Click to expand...
He's a liar. If he was achieving the same thing as the police officer down the road would, there was no point of him being there. What he was trying to do was prevent speeding drivers from being fined. He's perfectly entitled to argue against that on whatever basis but he can't deny it's his intention.

The problem is that the act of being caught and fined is likely to act as a more significant deterrent than just spotting some random guy with a sign on the road and slowing down. That is, after all, the original point of legal fines (that they may have become fund-raising in some cases is a separate issue). There is a difference between wanting to make the road safer and wanting dangerous drivers to avoid punishment.

It is interesting that I can't think of any other crimes where warning the criminal that the police are just around the corner wouldn't be considered wrong but actually socially acceptable.

The General said:
Here how you stop Police Quotas.
Click to expand...
How about all of the drivers in the area conspire not to break any traffic laws for an entire month. That'd show 'em! ;)

The General said:
How do you think it should be taken care of?
Click to expand...
Seriously? Proper funding of law enforcement via direct taxation and all money from fines to go in to some separate, independent pot, maybe something charitable. People choosing not to break the law in the first place would help too.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

Tigger said:
I have almost no effective use for the US Constitution and haven't throughout my life. I don't give a **** who does or doesn't agree with me on this. I'm simply looking at it as a means to stop the problem. I am well aware of how many unlicensed drivers are out there. I just don't believe that many of them will be able to buy or borrow enough vehicles to constantly get themselves to work, as they get confiscated. Who will be stupid enough to loan a vehicle out to an unlicensed driver knowing that if they're stopped, the car is gone forever (even if the loan payments aren't)?
Click to expand...

The first part of your post is just the same old somewhat tired declaration of Tigger we all know by heart.

The second shows you don't understand how the world outside your fortress of solitude works. Not even you can tell as a vehicle goes by if the driver has a valid license. Only after a traffic stop can the cop tell if the driver is operating the vehicle legally.

Your confiscation idea is a dead issue in the real world as no one, liberal or Con alike, wants the government having that much power- but fear not, the law does punish folks who operate a motor vehicle with a suspended or no license. They can go to jail after routine traffic stops or if they cause injury.

There are many means to stop a problem- useful, legal ones are of course preferred. ones that fit the magnitude of the crime are this current century's thinking.

As for the Constitution and what little use you have for it.... I'm betting you would be one of the first to scream for it's protection if 'they' came after you. And as we have had this conversation before- you can save the 'cold dead hands' thing.... again we are all very aware of what you think you'd do. broadsword and all... ;)
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

notquiteright said:
The second shows you don't understand how the world outside your fortress of solitude works. Not even you can tell as a vehicle goes by if the driver has a valid license. Only after a traffic stop can the cop tell if the driver is operating the vehicle legally.
Click to expand...

True. However, you know who DOES know whose license is suspended?.... the neighbors. So when Fred borrows Andy's car, gets stopped for speeding and the car gets confiscated; I highly doubt that John is going to let Fred borrow his car.

notquiteright said:
Your confiscation idea is a dead issue in the real world as no one, liberal or Con alike, wants the government having that much power- but fear not, the law does punish folks who operate a motor vehicle with a suspended or no license. They can go to jail after routine traffic stops or if they cause injury.
Click to expand...

There is no interest in Law, Order, or any form of Justice in this country at this point. It may as well be the Wild West out there on a daily basis.

notquiteright said:
There are many means to stop a problem- useful, legal ones are of course preferred. ones that fit the magnitude of the crime are this current century's thinking.
Click to expand...

Which means they do nothing.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

Buy one of these for $499 and you can be protected and drive as you like:

TLP_Escort_Redline4.jpg
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

Jetboogieman said:
I've seen it now multiple times they're the ****ers speeding on the highway, limit around here on Highway is 110 in most places.

I'm just over that, they'll pass me at a decent pace of probably 120 or just above.

One time I was going down a single lane, cop behind me, tailgating my ass pretty hard because I'm sticking to speed limit of 50... ****er throws on his lights so he can pass me, saw him 1 mile up the road just parking up to set up a speed trap.
Click to expand...

Yeah, have to tell you, that's not a speed trap.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

Rocketman said:
Buy one of these for $499 and you can be protected and drive as you like:

TLP_Escort_Redline4.jpg
Click to expand...

Not really. A lot of them don't use radar anymore. They use lasers. Those won't pick up lasers.
 
Re: Law Enforcement Is Not About Generating Revenue: Speed Trap And Booking Fee Editi

stonewall50 said:
Not really. A lot of them don't use radar anymore. They use lasers. Those won't pick up lasers.
Click to expand...

actually it does pick up scatter and has saved me more than once. The lasers are used more in summer, less in winter. I have a blocker for that as well but it was a waste of money as most of the midwest uses KA. Laser requires the officers to point specifically and shoot and he must be sitting still or he will get a false reading. Lasers also do not perform well against darker colored cars as there is nothing shiny to target. I have not had in ticket in 3.5 years now since buying the Redline.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom