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96 Percent of Dems Who Support Minimum Wage Hike Don’t Pay Their Interns

jmotivator said:
So what were the two very different things you were comparing? Obviously you knew what they were when you said it.



Because when you say that two things are very different you need to be able to express what those two things actually are rather than hide behind a colloquialism. I made the mistake of assuming you knew the two things you were comparing, apparently you don't?
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Well obviously I was talking about unpaid interns and minimum wage workers and the kind of folks who typically occupy each of those types of work. I mean I thought it was obvious I was talking about the stuff mentioned in the OP and the title of the thread, but I guess it wasn't clear.

So what do you think Dems want to make everyone when you said apples?
 
Rocketman said:
That is what is wrong with NY, CA, and NJ. The cost of living in those states is ridiculous because of all the various levels of handouts.
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That's not true.

NJ doesn't offer any "handouts" that TX, KY, and AL don't also offer.

The cost of living is high in NJ because we're among those states with the highest average income.

If people can afford to pay more for stuff (and many Jerseymen can) businesses will charge more for stuff.

That works out okay if you're at or above the average state income of about $70,000 a year.

But if you're on the low end, making closer to the national average of $49,000, or in the lowest two quintiles (averaging $28,000 or $11,000 respectively), getting by in NJ can be a real bear.

The same is true for NY, CA, and a number of other Northeastern states.
 
Wiseone said:
Well obviously I was talking about unpaid interns and minimum wage workers and the kind of folks who typically occupy each of those types of work. I mean I thought it was obvious I was talking about the stuff mentioned in the OP and the title of the thread, but I guess it wasn't clear.
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Yes, it was obvious which is why it was so odd to find you so confused by my response. Given that the Democrats have been beating the "living wage!" drum for a few months now and bemoaning minimum wage as insufficient for workers I figured it would be quite obvious, when given the choice of minimum wage workers and people who work for no wages at all, which group I was talking about. Did you think I meant that the Dems wanted people to work for no money?
 
jmotivator said:
Yes, it was obvious which is why it was so odd to find you so confused by my response. Given that the Democrats have been beating the "living wage!" drum for a few months now and bemoaning minimum wage as insufficient for workers I figured it would be quite obvious, when given the choice of minimum wage workers and people who work for no wages at all, which group I was talking about. Did you think I meant that the Dems wanted people to work for no money?
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Christ I asked because I didn't want to assume nor make your argument for you.
 
Wiseone said:
Christ I asked because I didn't want to assume nor make your argument for you.
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You rightly trusted your "apples and oranges" statement could be noodled by the rest of us. My response gave you a 50/50 shot if you were guessing, and a 100% chance if you used your brain.

The reason the Democrats are hypocrites, and why this isn't an apples to oranges comparison, is that the "Living Wage" screed itself makes no differentiation between the middle class kid saving money for an Xbone and a middle aged mom earning money to buy food. The former is FAR more likely to be getting paid an actual minimum wage than the latter is.
 
Wiseone said:
I don't really see how this is hypocritical, its comparing apples and oranges.
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It is also apples and oranges when discussing those, with different needs, that now earn the minimum wage (MW); for those that need mainly beer, date and book money (like the OP interns) they are fine with the current MW (or even less), but those that must support a spouse and two kids need more income than the MW provides.

This is still true, possibly worse, after raising the MW to $10.10/hour because, while the student's expenses are still met (or exceeded), the family provider then sees many of their living expenses rise, and "safety net" help fall, due to the national MW increase. Of course, we could then adjust the poverty level upward, restoring the "safety net" help, but then that just puts us right back to square one. The bottom line is that trying to make the MW into a living wage (Obama's real wish?) fails.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
It is also apples and oranges when discussing those, with different needs, that now earn the minimum wage (MW); for those that need mainly beer, date and book money (like the OP interns) they are fine with the current MW (or even less), but those that must support a spouse and two kids need more income than the MW provides.

This is still true, possibly worse, after raising the MW to $10.10/hour because, while the student's expenses are still met (or exceeded), the family provider then sees many of their living expenses rise, and "safety net" help fall, due to the national MW increase. Of course, we could then adjust the poverty level upward, restoring the "safety net" help, but then that just puts us right back to square one. The bottom line is that trying to make the MW into a living wage (Obama's real wish?) fails.
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You can actually see this happen time and time again throughout recent history. The gains made by raising the minimum wage take only a few years to be gobbled up by the inflation caused by the rise in the minimum wage.

In constant dollars the minimum wage is on par with what it was through the entire Clinton administration, a time when Democrats thought the economy was doubleplusgood.
 
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jmotivator said:
You can actually see this happen time and time again throughout recent history. The gains made by raising the minimum wage take only a few years to be gobbled up by the inflation caused by the rise in the minimum wage.
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Correlation/causation error.
 
soccerboy22 said:
Yeah interns tend to be unpaid because the experience they get. Most interns are still in school and it helps them build their resumes for once they graduate. Hell I had the chance to be a paid intern this summer and turned the money in exchange to going on lunch meetings and interacting more with people.
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The only thing you are doing by taking a unpaid internship is telling future employers that you are a dumbass who like to be taken advantage of.

Class of 2013: Paid Interns Outpace Unpaid Peers in Job Offers, Salaries
Among 2013 graduates who had applied for a job, those who took part in paid internships enjoyed a distinct advantage over their peers who undertook an unpaid experience or who didn’t do an internship.
Results of NACE’s 2013 Student Survey show that 63.1 percent of paid interns received at least one job offer. In comparison, only 37 percent of unpaid interns got an offer; that’s not much better than results for those with no internship—35.2 percent received at least one job offer.
In terms of starting salary, too, paid interns did significantly better than other job applicants: The median starting salary for new grads with paid internship experience is $51,930—far outdistancing their counterparts with an unpaid internship ($35,721) or no internship experience ($37,087).
 
Wiseone said:
I don't really see how this is hypocritical, its comparing apples and oranges.
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No its not.People complaining that minimum wage needs to be increased should be paying all their employees at least the wage they want minimum wage increased to.Interns are doing work and as such they should be paid money for that work.
 
jamesrage said:
No its not.People complaining that minimum wage needs to be increased should be paying all their employees at least the wage they want minimum wage increased to.Interns are doing work and as such they should be paid money for that work.
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Exactly comparing apples to oranges, as you pointed out the two are different and need different approaches.
 
Fiddytree said:
There's teaching position "shortages" everywhere (including my state). But there are multiple variables which continue to make it so. Likewise, I'd have to go through the license process (again) if I go to another state. I am certainly not opposed to doing something to get a job (and of course, I'd go far below education level to "get by" while looking), but I find it rather peculiar that you'd take a single individual and then try to spread it outward. There are plenty of fields which haven't grown or accepted new employees as they were projected to, students take on an enormous debt burden, and in many fields, are expected to do far more and get compensated far less (including internships, temporary work, etc. to "get the foot in the door"-regardless if this actually happens). It's the reality we face. For my situation, I don't mind taking on debt to get the education that I was told I could never have even if I wanted to, but I know where my skill sets are, and I know what fields I can and cannot realistically gun for. It just so happens that the math and science sector are places where I could never travel. I have to take my skills elsewhere, and I am certainly trying. For a lot of other people in my generation, there are a great many variables which explain why they too cannot gain entrance into the market, even those that were where all the energy was supposed to be.
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there is the issue, debt. No one planning on teaching should be going into debt for their education. Jesus Christ this is not rocket science. A simple ROI would tell someone that is foolish
 
Paschendale said:
Yep, that sums up the "libertarian-right" philosophy pretty well. My personal story is a good one, so everyone else who isn't as fortunate must be doing something wrong and doesn't deserve help. I must be superior, because I don't recognize good fortune.



Half my law class cannot find work as lawyers. And this is even after working unpaid internships for "experience" all through law school.



And, of course, moving isn't a hugely expensive proposition or a risky gamble at all. A whole lot of recent college graduates had to move back in with their families... because they can't afford to live anywhere else.

How dense do you have to be to keep pretending that there isn't a serious shortage of work for young people to do, and even less that will pay enough to live?
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How dense does one have to be not to recoginze irresponsible behavior? Maybe it is beyond your grasp
 
soot said:
That's not true.

NJ doesn't offer any "handouts" that TX, KY, and AL don't also offer.

The cost of living is high in NJ because we're among those states with the highest average income.

If people can afford to pay more for stuff (and many Jerseymen can) businesses will charge more for stuff.

That works out okay if you're at or above the average state income of about $70,000 a year.

But if you're on the low end, making closer to the national average of $49,000, or in the lowest two quintiles (averaging $28,000 or $11,000 respectively), getting by in NJ can be a real bear.

The same is true for NY, CA, and a number of other Northeastern states.
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they tax the hell out of their residents, the cost of living their is poltical, nothing more
 
Rocketman said:
Liberals are really pushing raising the minimum wage for 2014. Thirty states have put forward bills to increase it, and Democrats have made this issue part of their political strategy for this year. Yet, a new study from the Employment Policies Institute (EPI) has exposed the proponents of raising the minimum wage of their "hypocrisy." It seems that 96% of Democrats who support such measures don't pay their interns.

The abstract of the EPI study noted that "the same Members of Congress who are supporting a 40% wage hike on private sector employers are simultaneously failing to provide any wages to their own employee interns."

Last year, I wrote for Newsbusters about how the media rail about the gender wage gap, but seem to ignore that the Obama White House paid their female staffers 88.3% of what their male ones earn.

96 Percent of Dems Who Support Minimum Wage Hike Don
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So what? I was an unpaid intern at a Fortune 500 company back when I was in college, I did well, and spent 14 years working for that company in progressively more responsible jobs. Is the concept of the unpaid internship such a foreign concept? I guess it is when you have to use it as a silly prop to argue against something you are not for, but it is a pretty weak, and overly sensationalistic ploy.
 
Rocketman said:
there is the issue, debt. No one planning on teaching should be going into debt for their education. Jesus Christ this is not rocket science. A simple ROI would tell someone that is foolish
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It isn't rocket science, which is why I have a rather simple question: how exactly do I not go into debt getting my education? It's a wee bit difficult financing at least 15 thousand dollars a year, without going into debt, and not splitting too much attention between the job and one's school status. You're completely out of touch with reality.
 
Fiddytree said:
It isn't rocket science, which is why I have a rather simple question: how exactly do I not go into debt getting my education? It's a wee bit difficult financing at least 15 thousand dollars a year, without going into debt, and not splitting too much attention between the job and one's school status. You're completely out of touch with reality.
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No you are, you plan for it. We have three kids, all went to school debt free, and they worked while attending paying for their books and spending cash. You lack of planning is painting a clearer picture here
 
Rocketman said:
No you are, you plan for it. We have three kids, all went to school debt free, and they worked while attending paying for their books and spending cash. You lack of planning is painting a clearer picture here
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My lack of planning? Go on, please explain this to me. I'd love to hear this. Please lecture me about my finances and my personal history.

Good God man. Cut the crap and stop this audaciousness.
 
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Wiseone said:
Exactly comparing apples to oranges, as you pointed out the two are different and need different approaches.
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It is not comparing apples and oranges.Its hypocritical for people to demand a minimum wage increase when they are not even paying all their employees a wage.
 
Fiddytree said:
My lack of planning? Go on, please explain this to me. I'd love to hear this. Please lecture me about my finances and my personal history.

Good God man. Cut the crap and stop this audaciousness.
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You failed to do so, nothing to explain.
 
Rocketman said:
You failed to do so, nothing to explain.
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Maybe you should step outside your own experiences, consider the variables involved in other people's lives, before you make judgmental statements. You were not in our shoes, you have no basis to declare "no one planning on teaching should be going into debt for their education" at all; none (especially if you want to continue that mantra about bootstraps).
 
Fiddytree said:
Maybe you should step outside your own experiences, consider the variables involved in other people's lives, before you make judgmental statements. You were not in our shoes, you have no basis to declare "no one planning on teaching should be going into debt for their education" at all; none (especially if you want to continue that mantra about bootstraps).
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Maybe some of you should start planning your lives instead waking up like every day is the first day of your life.
 
Rocketman said:
Maybe some of you should start planning your lives instead waking up like every day is the first day of your life.
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Maybe you should consider the time and money went into other important areas instead of being condescending from your higher tower and stop acting like I acted like I had just been born. Jerk. You do not know me and you sure as hell do not have the right to insinuate that I squandered time. Better men and women have told me otherwise.

Now, good evening.
 
Rocketman said:
they tax the hell out of their residents, the cost of living their is political, nothing more
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You honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

NJ state income tax on "average" Americans (the NJ tax bracket earning between $40,001 and $75,000) is 5.525%

In NC the rate on folks earning between $12,751 and $60,000 is 7%.

In AL the flat rate on anyone earning over $3000 is 5%.

In GA it's 6% on anyone earning over $7001.

In NE it's 6.84% on anyone earning over $27,001.

Yes, the tax rate in NJ increases on folks earning over $75,000 (to 6.37% for those earning between $75,001 and $500,000, and to 8.97% for those earning more than $500,001) but by and large those of us in those tax brackets can afford to live pretty well in NJ even with the extra 1% or 2% in taxation.

NJ has some of the highest (if not the highest) property taxes in the country (1.89% as a percentage of appraised home value), but not significantly higher than TX (1.81%), NE (1.70%), or ND (1.42%).

The "stuff" that makes the cost of living so high in NJ are things that have little to do with taxes. Home value and rent is a big one, NJ traditionally ranks number 1 or 2 for both of those. Food is more expensive in NJ, entertainment is more expensive, clothing is more expensive.

But, again, being among the states with the highest average income, many in NJ can easily afford these higher costs.

It only becomes a problem when your family isn't making $75,000 + a year.

Again, you don't know what you're taking about and your comments, not NJ's taxes, are what's political.
 
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