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Thread: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

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    re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    He better get scared. Calling for back up means you're liable to be beaten to death.
    Bull. And people assuming that is another thing that causes such a huge issue. Plus, in all likelihood the cop was calling for a translator once he realized the guy was having trouble understanding him/communicating with him.
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    re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    And it appears some of the outrage over this really is unfounded since witnesses in the area claim the injury the guy received was due to falling, not being pushed.

    'I'm walkin' here!': New York takes aim at jaywalking, tickets people in too much of a hurry | Star Tribune

    "Police Commissioner Bill Bratton said witnesses gave the impression Wong was hurt in a fall, not as a result of excessive police force."

    Sure they could be lying. But so could this guy. It is not that hard to believe an 84 year old man who admits to "resisting" the police could fall down and hit his head, particularly if he was already in handcuffs when it happened but still fighting (as it appears he is in the picture in the OP).

    I'm a pedestrian often. And I see what happens. Both pedestrians and motorists tend to get impatient and/or not pay attention to what is going on and/or simply not obey the traffic rules. I have been upset with both. I have jaywalked myself. In some pretty dangerous ways. But had I been caught, I would have deserved the ticket. It's that simple. Now, if the cop was wrong, it should be fought in court. Get witnesses (another good reason to know how to speak the language of the majority of the people in the place you live in, so that you can talk to them if stuff like this happens in order to get their help right away). If available (and its NYC, I think they have cameras everywhere), see if you can bring in the tapes of what happened. Or just fight the ticket. Heck, the tickets aren't even expensive.
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    re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I would only feel this way if he was christian. I'm ok with tasing Christians


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    re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    -- Sure they could be lying. But so could this guy. It is not that hard to believe an 84 year old man who admits to "resisting" the police could fall down and hit his head, particularly if he was already in handcuffs when it happened but still fighting (as it appears he is in the picture in the OP) --
    I'm just curious why it would be necessary to put handcuffs on an 84 year old for jaywalking?

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    re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    I'm just curious why it would be necessary to put handcuffs on an 84 year old for jaywalking?
    He wasn't arrested for jaywalking, but rather disorderly conduct. He pushed the police officer trying to give him the ticket for jaywalking. That was what he was being arrested for.
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    re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And it appears some of the outrage over this really is unfounded since witnesses in the area claim the injury the guy received was due to falling, not being pushed.

    'I'm walkin' here!': New York takes aim at jaywalking, tickets people in too much of a hurry | Star Tribune

    "Police Commissioner Bill Bratton said witnesses gave the impression Wong was hurt in a fall, not as a result of excessive police force."

    Sure they could be lying. But so could this guy. It is not that hard to believe an 84 year old man who admits to "resisting" the police could fall down and hit his head, particularly if he was already in handcuffs when it happened but still fighting (as it appears he is in the picture in the OP).

    I'm a pedestrian often. And I see what happens. Both pedestrians and motorists tend to get impatient and/or not pay attention to what is going on and/or simply not obey the traffic rules. I have been upset with both. I have jaywalked myself. In some pretty dangerous ways. But had I been caught, I would have deserved the ticket. It's that simple. Now, if the cop was wrong, it should be fought in court. Get witnesses (another good reason to know how to speak the language of the majority of the people in the place you live in, so that you can talk to them if stuff like this happens in order to get their help right away). If available (and its NYC, I think they have cameras everywhere), see if you can bring in the tapes of what happened. Or just fight the ticket. Heck, the tickets aren't even expensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    He wasn't arrested for jaywalking, but rather disorderly conduct. He pushed the police officer trying to give him the ticket for jaywalking. That was what he was being arrested for.
    Correct on all astute observations

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    re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I've lived in many large cities, a pedestrian in them all for the most part, since I can't drive. I know that they time the signals to walk for older people. Honolulu, Waikiki were notorious for having people, especially older people hit by cars. They ensured that their signals were timed for the slowest people. Unfortunately, that means that people have to obey them. It doesn't mean that you can automatically cross the street with a green light. It means crossing the street with an actual walk signal, not the flashing hand and especially not the solid hand.

    It is only his word that he was caught in the middle vice actually crossing when he shouldn't have, jaywalking. And that is something fought in court, not on the street. The jaywalking laws have been around forever. They aren't new. The only thing new is the increased enforcement of those laws, but the laws themselves have been in place for a very long time. They are not required to ensure every single person is aware of the increased enforcement of existing laws.

    From the picture I saw, the man was trying to sit down on them. There were 4 maybe 5 cops around, 2 trying to hold the guy up, a female cop that looked like she was trying to talk to him, and then one or two others looking either at him or at the area. Didn't see any evidence that they were doing anything wrong in having that many there.
    How do you know he did not start crossing the street when the actual walk signal came on? He was crossing the street with the rest of the pedestrians. Once you're in the cross walk you still can contiue on even the signal changed to flashing hand.

    You said the police didn't rough him up but he simply fell. But here's what one eyewitness said:


    WTF! 84-Year-Old Beat By NYPD Police For Jaywalking (VIDEO) | Global Grind


    According to eyewitness Ian King, Wong did not understand the officer due to a language barrier, and attempted to walk away from the scene. The officer tried to pull Wong back to the wall, and “that’s when he began to struggle with the cop,” King explained. Additional cops entered the scene and started beating the elderly man — an attack that “left [Wong] bloody and dazed.”

    You said the jaywalking laws have been in place for a very long time, I don't know that's true or not. But, the article you linked to said this:

    'I'm walkin' here!': New York takes aim at jaywalking, tickets people in too much of a hurry | Star Tribune


    Mayoral spokesman Wiley Norvell said it was the neighborhood police precinct's decision to respond to the recent deaths with tickets. In the rest of the city, police, transportation and health officials are working to prevent deaths through educational efforts, including distributing fliers warning people to look when they cross.

    So it's not even citywide thing. How do you expect people, especially the elderly, to know the law to its fine detail about when to start crossing at the intersection and when to stop per the various signals of walking light? It also said this:

    "To go from no enforcement to this aggressive action is overkill," said Mark Levine, an Upper West Side member of the City Council.


    And from your same article it talked about a host of brazen Time square jaywalkers ignoring a "Don't Walk" light and a police cruiser slowed down to allow the horde of jaywalkers to pass.

    At the Crossroads of the World, as Times Square is known, the jaywalking is brazen. Several mothers pushing strollers zigzagged through slow-moving traffic Tuesday, ignoring a "Don't Walk" light. A police cruiser slowed down to allow a horde of jaywalkers to pass.


    So, if the police can give a pass to a horde of jaywalkers who ignored the "Don't Walk" light, why couldn't they let this 84 year-old elderly man have a pass since he clearly wasn't able to complete the cross in time? Instead he was bloodied and handcuffed on the spot and in the hospital and then to police station.


    Talk about zero tolerance and cracking down on jaywalking, don't the NYPD police officers have bigger fish to catch than harass a harmless 84 year-old man crossing the street?


    I don't agree with your take based on the still picture you saw. That's just me. And you also don't need to believe in the old man's word either. From the way the horde of NYPD police officers handled this harmless and non-crime violation of an 84 year-old man, it's just way out of line and beyond common human decency. If others, besides the police, were to do the same, they would be charged for assault and elderly abuse.
    Last edited by dolphinocean; 01-28-14 at 10:18 PM.

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    re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    How do you know he did not start crossing the street when the actual walk signal came on? He was crossing the street with the rest of the pedestrians. Once you're in the cross walk you still can contiue on even the signal changed to flashing hand.

    You said the police didn't rough him up but he simply fell. But here's what one eyewitness said:





    You said the jaywalking laws have been in place for a very long time, I don't know that's true or not. But, the article you linked to said this:

    'I'm walkin' here!': New York takes aim at jaywalking, tickets people in too much of a hurry | Star Tribune


    Mayoral spokesman Wiley Norvell said it was the neighborhood police precinct's decision to respond to the recent deaths with tickets. In the rest of the city, police, transportation and health officials are working to prevent deaths through educational efforts, including distributing fliers warning people to look when they cross.

    So it's not even citywide thing. How do you expect people, especially the elderly, to know the law to its fine detail about when to start crossing at the intersection and when to stop per the various signals of walking light? It also said this:

    "To go from no enforcement to this aggressive action is overkill," said Mark Levine, an Upper West Side member of the City Council.


    And from your same article it talked about a host of brazen Time square jaywalkers ignoring a "Don't Walk" light and a police cruiser slowed down to allow the horde of jaywalkers to pass.

    [indent]At the Crossroads of the World, as Times Square is known, the jaywalking is brazen. Several mothers pushing strollers zigzagged through slow-moving traffic Tuesday, ignoring a "Don't Walk" light. A police cruiser slowed down to allow a horde of jaywalkers to pass.[/intent]


    So, if the police can give a pass to a horde of jaywalkers who ignored the "Don't Walk" light, why couldn't they let this 84 year-old elderly man have pass since he clearly wasn't able to complete the cross in time? Instead he was bloodied and handcuffed on the spot and in the hospital and then to police station.


    Talk about zero tolerance and cracking down on jaywalking, don't the NYPD police officers have bigger fish to ctch than harass a harmless 84 year-old man crossing the street?


    I don't agree with your take based on the still picture you saw. That's just me. And you also don't need to believe in the old man's word either. From the way the horde of NYPD police officers handled this harmless and non-crime violation of an 84 year-old man, it's just way out of line and beyond common human decency. If others, besides the police, were to do the same, they would be charged for assault and elderly abuse.
    First, I'm not saying if the guy was truly guilty of jaywalking or not. Either is possible. But, that is something fought in court, not fought while in front of the police officer.

    Second, jaywalking laws have been laws for a very long time. They are not new, anywhere in the US, especially not in NYC. What is new is stricter enforcement of those laws, but that is not something that areas have to tell everyone about just because they decide to do it.

    Also, there is no real way to know whether the officer was going to actually give the old man a ticket or just a warning or not for jaywalking since the old man decided to push the officer and try to get back his ID card before the officer was able to even communicate effectively with him. The old man should have figured out that lack of communication between himself and the police officer would mean waiting longer for an interpreter to come so that they could effectively communicate. But instead the guy got impatient and/or scared and attacked the officer (pushing is assault). He brought what happened afterward onto himself. It is dishonest to paint this as him being hurt or arrested over jaywalking. Jaywalking led to his temporary detainment, but assaulting an officer is what led to his arrest (I believe they charged him with "disorderly conduct").

    And I think people wrongly want to label all cops as bad due to just a few. Most cops are absolutely decent. You simply have an obvious bias against police officers, for whatever reason.
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    re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And it appears some of the outrage over this really is unfounded since witnesses in the area claim the injury the guy received was due to falling, not being pushed.

    'I'm walkin' here!': New York takes aim at jaywalking, tickets people in too much of a hurry | Star Tribune

    "Police Commissioner Bill Bratton said witnesses gave the impression Wong was hurt in a fall, not as a result of excessive police force."
    The article you linked to simply stated that was just the impression the Police Commisioner got from his subjective take of what eyewitnesses said. There was nothing, no quote and no name whatsoever, from actual eyewitnesses.

    But the following article quoted an eyewitness by name who said this:

    WTF! 84-Year-Old Beat By NYPD Police For Jaywalking (VIDEO) | Global Grind

    According to eyewitness Ian King, Wong did not understand the officer due to a language barrier, and attempted to walk away from the scene. The officer tried to pull Wong back to the wall, and “that’s when he began to struggle with the cop,” King explained. Additional cops entered the scene and started beating the elderly man — an attack that “left [Wong] bloody and dazed.”
    ]

    Also, you don't fall down and get bloodied on your left cheek, which is more consistent to being having one's head pushed into the ground side way.







    Sure they could be lying. But so could this guy.
    Yeah, even if you think this old man lied, there's still no justification for this old man to be bloodied and sent to hospital.

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    re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    The article you linked to simply stated that was just the impression the Police Commisioner got from his subjective take of what eyewitnesses said. There was nothing, no quote and no name whatsoever, from actual eyewitnesses.

    But the following article quoted an eyewitness by name who said this:

    WTF! 84-Year-Old Beat By NYPD Police For Jaywalking (VIDEO) | Global Grind

    According to eyewitness Ian King, Wong did not understand the officer due to a language barrier, and attempted to walk away from the scene. The officer tried to pull Wong back to the wall, and “that’s when he began to struggle with the cop,” King explained. Additional cops entered the scene and started beating the elderly man — an attack that “left [Wong] bloody and dazed.”
    ]

    Also, you don't fall down and get bloodied on your left cheek, which is more consistent to being having one's head pushed into the ground side way.








    Yeah, even if you think this old man lied, there's still no justification for this old man to be bloodied and sent to hospital.
    First of all, the only blood appears to be coming from the side of his head. If he had fallen, as was the "impression" of witnesses, then that could easily cause the wound on his head.

    Second, you do not walk away from a cop when they still have your ID card and are trying to communicate with you. But he himself claims that he didn't walk away but rather tried to get his ID back, before the police officer was done talking to him (likely due to the communication barrier, the officer was trying to get an interpreter to explain to the man either why he shouldn't be crossing the road without the light/signal or why he was being issued a citation).

    If the old man fell and bumped his head, as other witnesses are claiming, then that was not the fault of the officers. It would be the fault of the man for fighting cops who were doing their job. He should not have been so impatient or unwilling to cooperate.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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