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Thread: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

  1. #131
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    Re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    Doesn't work that way when you discount the old man and concluded he was at fault.

    The old man said he was pushed against the wall, then to the ground and when he came to from unconsciousness he was handcuffed, which is what the picture showed exactly. Here's the media report of what he said:

    Manhattan man, 84, ticketed for jaywalking to file $5 million lawsuit against city - NY Daily News

    In response to Wong’s repeated requests for his card back, the cop whipped out handcuffs and spoke into his portable radio. “I got more scared,” Wong said.

    Several officers raced over and grabbed Wong, pushing him against the wall of a building. Wong said he was pushed to the ground and struck his head, blacking out. When he regained consciousness, blood was streaming down his face and his hands were cuffed behind his back.

    If the person was just falling, why was he immediately handcuffed on the ground? Didn't you said it was illegal and a no-no for the old man to walk away or push the officer? So, is it a stretch to see that what the old man said is consistent with police take down of subject to execute an arrest as noted in the picture of the old man on the ground and handcuffed behind him?

    You still have not concede your numerous errors.
    No that is not what the pics show. No pictures show him being pushed to the ground nor knocked unconscious. And he had very little reason to feel scared about a police officer just talking on his radio. That is paranoia and he most likely overreacted to his paranoid feelings that the cop was somehow after him. Injury in the execution of an arrest does happen, whether due to the officers' actions or accidentally. I haven't erred. I have given possibilities, all of which you are trying to insist are wrong simply because you have some sort of bias against the police officers.
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  2. #132
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    Re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No that is not what the pics show. No pictures show him being pushed to the ground nor knocked unconscious. And he had very little reason to feel scared about a police officer just talking on his radio. That is paranoia and he most likely overreacted to his paranoid feelings that the cop was somehow after him. Injury in the execution of an arrest does happen, whether due to the officers' actions or accidentally. I haven't erred. I have given possibilities, all of which you are trying to insist are wrong simply because you have some sort of bias against the police officers.
    In almost all domestic abuse cases there would be no picture showing the woman being pushed down, beaten or knocked unconscious. So, by your logic the injuries suffered by her should simply be dismissed as "she fell" and her account of being pushed down and beaten completely dismissed as unbelievable despite no history of false report, lying or trouble from the woman?


    Or do you look at the possible scenario and rule out the unlikely event?


    In this case, how likely is it that:


    1. the man just fell when the officer was within arm's length and against the wall?


    2. the witness, Ian King, who gave his account did not even mention the old man fell?


    3. the man fell and instead of attending to the well being of the fallen old man the police officers just had him handcuffed behind his back while still on the ground?


    Compare this to the more plausible scenario:

    the old man, who didn't understand English, walked away and was pulled back by the cop. According to the witness, Ian KIng, that's when he began to struggle with the cop. "As soon as he pushed the cop, it was like cops started running in from everywhere.”


    Cops in NYC Bloody Up An 84 Year Old Man Over Jaywalking : TheSource


    Then the cops executed a take down to subdue the elderly subject for the handcuff and arrest. This scenario agree exactly to your point about police arresting a subject when resisting, struggling and pushing against the cop.


    So, according to you, it is illegal and a big No-No to struggle and push a cop no matter what otherwise you would be handcuffed and arrested, right? Furthermore, wasn't it your point that the old man was handcuffed and arrested for pushing the cop? So, how is it that you don't believe the old man's account that he was pushed to the wall and then the ground, handcuffed and arrested in a standard police take down procedure such as this? :





    Now, how about conceding to your wrong as pointed out in my post #123 (link below) about your misrepresentation of what the witness said?


    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062874712

  3. #133
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    Re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    National Lawyers Guild is a radical front for the Communist Party
    Communist Party = Group that doesn't agree with my brand of conservatism.

    Long live McCarthyism
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  4. #134
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    Re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    In almost all domestic abuse cases there would be no picture showing the woman being pushed down, beaten or knocked unconscious. So, by your logic the injuries suffered by her should simply be dismissed as "she fell" and her account of being pushed down and beaten completely dismissed as unbelievable despite no history of false report, lying or trouble from the woman?


    Or do you look at the possible scenario and rule out the unlikely event?


    In this case, how likely is it that:


    1. the man just fell when the officer was within arm's length and against the wall?


    2. the witness, Ian King, who gave his account did not even mention the old man fell?


    3. the man fell and instead of attending to the well being of the fallen old man the police officers just had him handcuffed behind his back while still on the ground?


    Compare this to the more plausible scenario:

    the old man, who didn't understand English, walked away and was pulled back by the cop. According to the witness, Ian KIng, that's when he began to struggle with the cop. "As soon as he pushed the cop, it was like cops started running in from everywhere.”


    Cops in NYC Bloody Up An 84 Year Old Man Over Jaywalking : TheSource


    Then the cops executed a take down to subdue the elderly subject for the handcuff and arrest. This scenario agree exactly to your point about police arresting a subject when resisting, struggling and pushing against the cop.


    So, according to you, it is illegal and a big No-No to struggle and push a cop no matter what otherwise you would be handcuffed and arrested, right? Furthermore, wasn't it your point that the old man was handcuffed and arrested for pushing the cop? So, how is it that you don't believe the old man's account that he was pushed to the wall and then the ground, handcuffed and arrested in a standard police take down procedure such as this? :


    Now, how about conceding to your wrong as pointed out in my post #123 (link below) about your misrepresentation of what the witness said?


    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062874712
    In any domestic abuse case, a good cop would not charge a person for it just off of the word of the victim, especially when others give another version of the story. The person certainly shouldn't be convicted of domestic abuse if the only evidence is a single incident where one ended up with a head wound and there are varying stories on how the person got that wound, there was a previous altercation where the victim was antagonizing the accused abuser in some way, and where there is absolutely no other evidence that the person was really being abused.

    Now, unfortunately when it comes to DV, there tends to be a mentality that the person accusing is automatically a victim and that the accused is automatically guilty until he/she proves themself innocent, even with very little evidence, something I absolutely do not agree with. I believe in innocent until proven guilty, even when it comes to cops. Just as I would not automatically believe a husband is abusing his wife just because she ended up on the ground, bleeding after he confronted her about doing something and it being reported that she attacked him first in some way. Heck, I have been that person that attacked someone who finally just punched me (a lot more softly than he could have since I didn't even bleed or bruise from it) and I know I deserved it because I was wailing on him first. Had I bumped my head and received a cut from that altercation, it would have been my own fault for starting the altercation to begin with, especially given the restraint my brother used in his punch (we were both teenagers at the time). Others tend to have this same belief about cops when it comes to guilty until proven innocent. "Cops are always victimizing poor innocent civilians." Many times those civilians really aren't all that innocent.
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  5. #135
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    Re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    See above post.
    What do you mean "No that is not what the pics show"?


    Didn't the pictures show the old man on the ground bloodied and with his hands handcuffed behind him? Wasn't he under police arrest then? Or did the pictures show the police attending to his well being following a fall?


    You are missing the point here regarding DV scenario. The argument stemmed from your requirement for picture to be shown of the pushing to the ground and knock unconscious. You are not making any counterpoint regarding my rebuttal of your argument that no picture shows the old man being pushed to the ground nor knocked unconscious. When you have a he said-she said situation without video or picture evidence you still can piece together witnesses' account and other circumstantial and physical evidence to determine whose account is more likely and whose story is not plausible.


    In this case we have a witness account and video of cops lifting him up from the ground while handcuffed and pictures of the old man bloodied on the ground with his hands handcuffed behind his back plus your argument that the police arrested him because he pushed the cop. By your own admission the intent of the cop was to execute an arrest because the old man pushed him back when the cop pulled him back. Your own argument supports and solidifies all the circumstantial and physical evidence pieced together with what the old man said and what the witness said which are very much consistent to what the old man said.


    But, not only you failed miserably in your own logic, but you also missed the whole picture.


    The police shouldn't even have given the old man a jaywalking ticket to begin with let alone treating him like a criminal by standing him up against the wall and pulling him back as if he had committed a serious crime. This cop should have exercise his discretion like the police officer at Time Square who stopped his police car to let jaywalkers cross the street despite the red "No Walking" light signal.


    And also this jaywalking law was a knee-jerk reaction to recent car accident involving pedestrian deaths and was implemented shortly within 12 hours of the accident without adequate public notice. It was also not even a citywide policy but an impromptu precinct decision put into effect that looked more like milking the people than to protect their safety.


    And to rub salt into the wound, the police refused to disclose to his son where he was hospitalized. Then took him into custody till next morning to book and charge him with crimes more severe than
    DUI that could put him up to a year in jail:


    84-Year-Old Jaywalker Could Get Jail While Deadly Drivers Get Off Scot-Free | Streetsblog New York City


    Kang Wong was charged with obstruction of government administration, resisting arrest, and disorderly conduct, according to reports. The first two charges are class A misdemeanors — more severe than a first-time DWI charge. Obstruction of government administration carries a sentence of up to a year in jail. While Wong is looking at jail time, the Times reported Sunday that unnamed prosecutors blamed vehicular crimes statutes and the courts for their failure to charge drivers who killed three pedestrians and a cyclist last weekend.


    In each case, detectives from the Police Department’s collision investigation squad examined the scenes. Commissioner William J. Bratton said last week he would expand investigations of serious crashes, an effort that began last year. But such cases remain difficult to bring, prosecutors say, and have grown more so in recent years as the state Court of Appeals has limited the ability to make serious charges stick against drivers.


    Of the 10 crashes that have killed pedestrians and cyclists in 2014, no drivers were charged with homicide or assault. It is true that judges and juries tend to side with those who commit vehicular crimes, but prosecutors who are complaining to the press about the difficulty of securing convictions against motorists should also be making their case to Albany legislators, who have the power to change laws.


    To seriously reduce traffic injuries and deaths, the mayor’s office, NYPD, and city district attorneys must be in sync. With 10 people dead, no motorists held accountable, and a pedestrian jailed, what New Yorkers have seen so far in 2014 is closer to chaos.


    It's just outrageous and excessively overkill. To an octogenarian, no less.
    Last edited by dolphinocean; 02-03-14 at 09:19 PM.

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    Re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Communist Party = Group that doesn't agree with my brand of conservatism.

    Long live McCarthyism
    sadly for you I actually am very well versed in this area. While the Communist party did not sponsor the formation of the NLG in the late 30s, many of the founders were members of the Communist party. The NLG often represented members of communist labor when they had conflicts with government, management and often other more mainstream labor groups

    In addition I have a degree in Industrial and Labor relations and labor law. The NLG figured prominently in our class concerning the history of labor movements in the USA.



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    Re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I'm generally supportive of the police, at least here in Toronto and Canada, but I have to say I find it remarkable that there are so many officers available to rush to the aid of an officer writing a jaywalking ticket. Are there units of officers on standby to assist and protect any officer not involved in an actual crime?

    I'd also say there's probably nothing more irritating to a cop than a person whom he's talking to ignoring what he's saying. I can just imagine the attitude he was "copping" (there's a reason the term "copping and attitude" exists) when the little asian didn't speak English and wouldn't do as he was told.

    This is not to say the elderly man was faultless in this - one, he should learn to speak English if he's going to break the law in America and two, he shouldn't break the law in America.
    NYC is a minor police state lol.
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    Re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    sadly for you I actually am very well versed in this area.
    I'll throw you a party sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    While the Communist party did not sponsor the formation of the NLG in the late 30s,
    Hmm, well thanks for clearing up this whole matter for us...


    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    many of the founders were members of the Communist party. The NLG often represented members of communist labor when they had conflicts with government, management and often other more mainstream labor groups

    In addition I have a degree in Industrial and Labor relations and labor law. The NLG figured prominently in our class concerning the history of labor movements in the USA.
    Oh, so when a lawyer represents a person, that means that anything that person agrees with the lawyer also whole heartedly agrees with? So if I'm a lawyer and I defend a guy who was innocent of a crime, but is a racist, I'm also a racist?

    Seriously, I know your a lawyer and all, but that should mean that you know to get yourself prepared before opening remarks. I can't imagine your shoot from the hip, come up with crap on the fly strategy is very effective in the courtroom.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  9. #139
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    Re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I'll throw you a party sometime.

    Hmm, well thanks for clearing up this whole matter for us...




    Oh, so when a lawyer represents a person, that means that anything that person agrees with the lawyer also whole heartedly agrees with? So if I'm a lawyer and I defend a guy who was innocent of a crime, but is a racist, I'm also a racist?

    Seriously, I know your a lawyer and all, but that should mean that you know to get yourself prepared before opening remarks. I can't imagine your shoot from the hip, come up with crap on the fly strategy is very effective in the courtroom.
    prominent members of the NLG have admitted it was a communist organization even if not officially started by the ACP. Example, Ron Kuby



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    Re: Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Moderator's Warning:
    Gang of NYPD cops beating up on 84 year-old man for jaywalking [W:129]Focus on the topic, not on each other.
    But... but...

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