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Thread: Los Angeles California - 5000 Angelenos For Kelly Thomas Protest

  1. #51
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    Re: Los Angeles California - 5000 Angelenos For Kelly Thomas Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    And what are they then to do when confronted with violent and resisting suspects? Call on a different Police force?

    If we did what you suggest, we would just have more crime.
    So you think the current shooting gallery using unarmed citizens as targets is satisfactory, I can only think you are a cop.

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    Re: Los Angeles California - 5000 Angelenos For Kelly Thomas Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    So you think the current shooting gallery using unarmed citizens as targets is satisfactory, I can only think you are a cop.

    You are speaking exaggerated nonsense.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Los Angeles California - 5000 Angelenos For Kelly Thomas Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I'm not sure which is more disturbing: That this incident happened at all, or that it has been adjudged "legal."
    What is disturbing is you emotive take on it.
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    Re: Los Angeles California - 5000 Angelenos For Kelly Thomas Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Doesn't mean much. Juries are found to have been in the wrong quite regularly.
    Yeah, it pretty much does.
    Sans making a decision outside of the law and evidence. Their verdict stands as what is.

    Juries are only found to be wrong if they decided outside of the law and the evidence.
    That did not happen here.


    And new evidence coming to light (which, over all cases, is a rarity) doesn't mean their verdict was wrong based on what they had. As it is new evidence.
    Which isn't going to happen here.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Los Angeles California - 5000 Angelenos For Kelly Thomas Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    new evidence coming to light (which, over all cases, is a rarity) doesn't mean their verdict was wrong
    Uh, yes it does.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Los Angeles California - 5000 Angelenos For Kelly Thomas Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Uh, yes it does.
    What an absolute absurd thing to say.
    No it doesn't .
    Their verdict was based on the evidence they had. That verdict is complete within that evidence.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
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    Re: Los Angeles California - 5000 Angelenos For Kelly Thomas Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    What an absolute absurd thing to say.
    No it doesn't .
    Their verdict was based on the evidence they had. That verdict is complete within that evidence.
    And yet, an old ruling is wrong if it gets overturned/made void based on new evidence. Don't like it? Deal with legal standards on this one.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Los Angeles California - 5000 Angelenos For Kelly Thomas Protest

    So much disinformation about this incident...

    1-There was a call to police made by the manager reporting that Kelly Thomas was seen attempting to break. into cars in the parking lot. That is 'known'. There is an allegation by a bouncer that was fired from the bar and grill and that has a 4 million dollar lawsuit against the bar and grill claiming that the manager lied. That is all.

    2-The police responded to a call. The responding officer did a dismal job of handling the interaction with the alleged suspect at the time. A second officer was able to communicate easily and effectively with Kelly Thomas. He was not demonstrating any symptoms that would be associated with a mental illness at the time. He refused to cooperate with Officer Ramos but cooperated fully with the second responding officer.

    3-Officer Ramos got pissed and lost his cool. 15:27 into their interaction he made a fist and threatened to beat the **** out of Kelly Thomas. Thomas responded by trying to get away. Yet another of his bad decisions that night.

    4-He was not beaten to death but he certainly died as a result of bad policing and a probably criminal act by Ramos.

    Dood died for one reason. Officer Ramos failed to do his job as a law enforcement officer and then exacerbated the problem by making both a physical and verbal threat. Should he have cooperated? Yes...no doubt. Does that justify Ramos' actions? No. Not even a little bit.

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    Re: Los Angeles California - 5000 Angelenos For Kelly Thomas Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    And yet, an old ruling is wrong if it gets overturned/made void based on new evidence. Don't like it? Deal with legal standards on this one.
    More absurdity.
    No it does not mean it was wrong. It can not be wrong if the decision was within the known evidence and the law. That is what you are not getting.
    The Jury weighs the evidence, and are the trier of fact. Their decision cannot be wrong if it was within the known evidence and the law.

    What you present only means that the verdict can not stand because of new evidence.
    Not that it was wrong.

    If the evidence is overwhelming that it is clear the person did not commit the the crime, they may not be recharged. A Prosecutors decision.
    But they may be recharged regardless, and a new jury will consider this new evidence as well to reach a new verdict.

    But it does not mean the verdict reached previously was wrong, as that verdict was based on what was known at the time.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: Los Angeles California - 5000 Angelenos For Kelly Thomas Protest

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    So much disinformation about this incident...
    I agree with that, but not the rest, as it wasn't correct.

    He failed to cooperate.
    A hollow threat was made in an attempt to get the non-cooperative lying game playing Kelly to comply, and in return Kelly verbally showed he was not fearful of that hollow threat and actually enticed the Officer to strike him.

    Instead of following through with the hollow threat (you know, because it being hollow means it wasn't really a threat) Officer Ramos again tried to get Kelly to comply to his verbal instruction. Kelly still wouldn't, and while attempting to do so, Officer Ramos pushed Kelly's arm it the direction he want him to put it. Kelly then tries to lay hands on the Officer, of which the Officer swipes it away. Kelly then becomes belligerent by standing up to confront the Officer. He is ordered to get on the ground but refuses to comply and attempts to flee. At which time both Officers begin swinging their batons and striking Kelly. He is brought down out of camera and the rest ensues.

    Kelly failed to cooperate after the non-threat and became belligerent.
    As testified to, besides the foul language, nothing the Officers did was outside of their training. It was not criminal.
    Kelly was resisting so greatly that multiple tasering had no affect him.
    His resistance was so great that it took multiple Officers beyond the tasering to subdue him, and in the struggle his chest was inadvertently crushed.

    What happened was not negligent or criminal in any way shape or form.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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