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50 Years Later, the Incalculable Gift of the Wilderness Act

Hicup said:
Sure just bring a gun and a snake-bite kit and you'll be cool. ;)


Tim-
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Snake bites are rarely fatal, and dying from a bear attack is 1 in 10,000,000 or so. It's exposure that kills people in the back country.
 
Dirt Racer said:
Great pics. Would love to visit those places.

I have spent a fair amount of time on the Jacks Fork and Current river near Eminence Mo. Yearly trip for us about a week at a time. When I was younger I spent a great deal of time in the mountains just outside of Santa Maria Ca.

To this day my family and I are in the woods as much as we can possible be. Either backpacking, canoeing, trail riding, Etc. Just can't get enough of it. Recently bought a cabin in the woods of Ste Genevieve Mo so now I will be forever surrounded by the wilderness.

Thanks for posting.
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That's awesome. You know the Missouri DNR reintroduced Elk into Missouri Ozarks a couple of years ago.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
That's awesome. You know the Missouri DNR reintroduced Elk into Missouri Ozarks a couple of years ago.
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No I didn't. Just bought the house down there so plenty to learn still. That is cool though. Have to keep my eyes open for one.
 
Hicup said:
Still, always prudent to take precautions. :)

Tim-
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A gun is largely ineffective against a grizzly because if one is charging you chances are you are not going to be able to hit them and even if you do, it won't kill them before they kill you. Bear spray is a much better option.

That said, if I was doing a back country trip into the Alaskan Interior or Canadian Yukon, I would want a gun with me in the event I were to become lost and would possibly need something to hunt with to supplement my food stores until I was either found or walked out. A small ax would be a good idea too.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
A gun is largely ineffective against a grizzly because if one is charging you chances are you are not going to be able to hit them and even if you do, it won't kill them before they kill you. Bear spray is a much better option.
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Ha, not likely bro. Yes true if one surprises you and you only have a few feet, but if you have 4 seconds, I can unholster my weapon and get off at least three shots. Anything higher than a 9mm at close range will slow down a Grizzly enough to make him think twice about the whole ordeal. One well placed shot assuming head on will kill him goodo.


That said, if I was doing a back country trip into the Alaskan Interior or Canadian Yukon, I would want a gun with me in the event I were to become lost and would possibly need something to hunt with to supplement my food stores until I was either found or walked out. A small ax would be a good idea too.
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All true.. Jerky is always a good idea and is mostly light to carry. Matches with wax on the tips, and a vile full of cotton balls soaked in Vaseline is a must.


Tim-
 
Hicup said:
Ha, not likely bro. Yes true if one surprises you and you only have a few feet, but if you have 4 seconds, I can unholster my weapon and get off at least three shots. Anything higher than a 9mm at close range will slow down a Grizzly enough to make him think twice about the whole ordeal. One well placed shot assuming head on will kill him goodo.
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Grizzly attacks are rare, but hunters have been attacked by them many times and they are armed of course. The problem is that you will almost never have more than a couple of seconds. Many times you will be in thick undergrowth and not even see the bear until he is almost on you charging you at better than 35 mph.

Law enforcement agents for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have experience that supports this reality --
based on their investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and
defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons
defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured
experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries. Canadian bear biologist Dr. Stephen Herrero
reached similar conclusions based on his own research -- a person’s chance of incurring serious injury from
a charging grizzly doubles when bullets are fired versus when bear spray is used.
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http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear spray.pdf

Just saying this because its good to know when in Grizzly country that a 20 dollar can of bear spray can save your life.


All true.. Jerky is always a good idea and is mostly light to carry. Matches with wax on the tips, and a vile full of cotton balls soaked in Vaseline is a must.
Tim-
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A couple of years ago while we were packing up for my son and I to spend a week backpacking in the backcountry in the Wind River Range in Wyoming, I took a picture of our food (a lot of it was kid friendly foods of course) The idea is as lite and calorie dense as possible:

foodn.jpg

The basic staples always include freeze dried meals, oatmeal, powdered milk, instant rice, instant potatoes, trail mix and so on.
 
I'm (or used to be but not as much anymore) an avid outdoor guy. I got my kids and family all in to it as well, but been so busy last few years that we haven't ventured into the true wild, and at best find only a week or so to camp at a place about an hour from us. Still, we do find time to explore the local area woods, and we talk about things that are edible and things that can kill you. One of our favorite past times is scouring the river for fossils. We actually found one last year that was a million years old. My oldest son keeps it on his night stand. That said, I grew up in Canada, and I've been to Alaska, Yukon, and the Northwest Territories, and while I agree pepper spray is useful, I'll always keep a high caliber pistol on my side when in bear, and big-cat country.


Tim-
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Read more here: 50 Years Later, the Incalculable Gift of the Wilderness Act | Field & Stream

The Wilderness Act celebrates its 50th year this year. I don't know how many people on here have spent any nights miles from the closest road or signs of civilization in the backcountry in one of our federal wilderness areas, but if you haven't you really are missing out.
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I bought a 50 acres of land from "federal wilderness areas". Now i can enjoy wilderness. Not cheap, too.
 
Hicup said:
I'm (or used to be but not as much anymore) an avid outdoor guy. I got my kids and family all in to it as well, but been so busy last few years that we haven't ventured into the true wild, and at best find only a week or so to camp at a place about an hour from us. Still, we do find time to explore the local area woods, and we talk about things that are edible and things that can kill you. One of our favorite past times is scouring the river for fossils. We actually found one last year that was a million years old. My oldest son keeps it on his night stand. That said, I grew up in Canada, and I've been to Alaska, Yukon, and the Northwest Territories, and while I agree pepper spray is useful, I'll always keep a high caliber pistol on my side when in bear, and big-cat country.


Tim-
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My son and I were doing a float / fishing trip down the Kaw in our canoe a few years ago. He was about 8 or so at the time I think. Anyway, we setup camp on a big sandbar and after I had the tent up and our rods baited I sent him down the sandbar looking for firewood. A few minutes later he came running back with a huge fossil in his hand. It ended up being a Saber Tooth Tiger Femur. He had just found it in the sand there. Evidently fossil hunters head up and down the Kaw every year after the spring floods to look for fossils.

On a side note, if you are in NY, Adirondack Park can't be far from you. I have never been to it, but have always heard its awesome, some of the more remote wilderness in the east.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
My son and I were doing a float / fishing trip down the Kaw in our canoe a few years ago. He was about 8 or so at the time I think. Anyway, we setup camp on a big sandbar and after I had the tent up and our rods baited I sent him down the sandbar looking for firewood. A few minutes later he came running back with a huge fossil in his hand. It ended up being a Saber Tooth Tiger Femur. He had just found it in the sand there. Evidently fossil hunters head up and down the Kaw every year after the spring floods to look for fossils.

On a side note, if you are in NY, Adirondack Park can't be far from you. I have never been to it, but have always heard its awesome, some of the more remote wilderness in the east.
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I am in NY and have been there several times. Fossil hunting is really a cool way to pass time, I love doing it.


Tim-
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Snake bites are rarely fatal, and dying from a bear attack is 1 in 10,000,000 or so. It's exposure that kills people in the back country.
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True. But I pack my large bear spray when in the Wind River Range. I'm not concerned about black bears however in the Boston/Ouachita mountains.
 
Montecresto said:
True. But I pack my large bear spray when in the Wind River Range. I'm not concerned about black bears however in the Boston/Ouachita mountains.
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The only time I pack my bear spray is when I am in grizzly country like the Wind River Range. In the Ozarks and Ouachitas I don't carry the spray (less weight the better), but I do hang a bear bag just in case. That is as much to keep foxes and raccoons out of our food as it is bears. There are some big bears in Arkansas though, my brother killed a 350 pound 7 and a half foot tall black bear above Lake Ouachita a few years ago. He had just come out of a deer stand when he saw it. He had a bear tag so went ahead and took it. Was surprisingly good eating. Just had a lot of fat to clean off it.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
The only time I pack my bear spray is when I am in grizzly country like the Wind River Range. In the Ozarks and Ouachitas I don't carry the spray (less weight the better), but I do hang a bear bag just in case. That is as much to keep foxes and raccoons out of our food as it is bears. There are some big bears in Arkansas though, my brother killed a 350 pound 7 and a half foot tall black bear above Lake Ouachita a few years ago. He had just come out of a deer stand when he saw it. He had a bear tag so went ahead and took it. Was surprisingly good eating. Just had a lot of fat to clean off it.
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It's strange. I see more wild life, bears included on my ranch then I ever do on the trail. I don't use a bear bag (not criticising them or suggesting they shouldn't be used) and only backpack in the winter, keep a large fire going steps from the tent, all night. Btw, outfitters in Wyoming have told me that a gun shot is a dinner bell to grizzlies. So many hunters shooting elk and other game. I also had them tell me that a pistol (which is the best you could be carrying when backpacking) or a bear spray, they would choose bear spray.
 
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Montecresto said:
It's strange. I see more wild life, bears included on my ranch then I ever do on the trail. I don't use a bear bag (not criticising them or suggesting they shouldn't be used) and only backpack in the winter, keep a large fire going steps from the tent, all night. Btw, outfitters in Wyoming have told me that a gun shot is a dinner bell to grizzlies. So many hunters shooting elk and other game. I also had them tell me that a pistol (which is the best you could be carrying when backpacking) or a bear spray, they would choose bear spray.
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I have never had much trouble with bears other than one time we did not hang all our food on a backpacking trip in Colorado and got our food bag raided and shredded. Woke up the next morning and saw where it had walked all around our tent, we had just slept right through it. Had our dog with us and he never even stirred. When you were in the Winds did you spend anytime in Pinedale, Wy? Its a cool little town.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I have never had much trouble with bears other than one time we did not hang all our food on a backpacking trip in Colorado and got our food bag raided and shredded. Woke up the next morning and saw where it had walked all around our tent, we had just slept right through it. Had our dog with us and he never even stirred. When you were in the Winds did you spend anytime in Pinedale, Wy? Its a cool little town.
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Yes, though oil exploration is having its effects on that town and area. We stayed in a lodge at half moon lake just above Pinedale and Freemont lake. Also found the exact spot of the 1826 Green River rendezvous! Btw, you're by my daughter, she's a senior at UMKC.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
No, Arkansas is a nice place to live if you like the outdoors and a nice place to grow up, but its not a nice place to try to further your career in. Moved up to Kansas City in 1999.
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And I moved from K.C. in `59`.

Float the Buffalo at least once a year, but then live on the White below Bull Shoals.
 
Redbeard said:
And I moved from K.C. in `59`.

Float the Buffalo at least once a year, but then live on the White below Bull Shoals.
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I love the Buffalo, too many people anymore on it though. Its hard to get much solitude unless you go in the winter or early spring. You know it almost ended up being at the bottom of a lake. The conservationist movement to keep that from happening is what lead it to be established as the country's first National River.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
I love the Buffalo, too many people anymore on it though. Its hard to get much solitude unless you go in the winter or early spring. You know it almost ended up being at the bottom of a lake. The conservationist movement to keep that from happening is what lead it to be established as the country's first National River.
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True enough. Took awhile to get people to come around to their way of thinking. It has certainly been beneficial. The natural flow and beauty is well worth investigating/exploring.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Snake bites are rarely fatal, and dying from a bear attack is 1 in 10,000,000 or so. It's exposure that kills people in the back country.
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I was bitten by a rattler in Eastern Oregon when I sat on a rock that included his den. Butt strike. I got very very sick but I'm still here. I was treed by a Grizzly in British Columbia. A sow protecting her cub. She tore up my fishing gear. She kept me in the tree for nearly a half hour before finally wandering off with her cub. She was angry. I was lucky. Never saw another Grizzly again in my life. That's OK with me.
 
fmw said:
I was bitten by a rattler in Eastern Oregon when I sat on a rock that included his den. Butt strike. I got very very sick but I'm still here. I was treed by a Grizzly in British Columbia. A sow protecting her cub. She tore up my fishing gear. She kept me in the tree for nearly a half hour before finally wandering off with her cub. She was angry. I was lucky. Never saw another Grizzly again in my life. That's OK with me.
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My Grandfather was snake bit twice. Once by a cottonmouth when he was 12. They did not have the money to go to a doctor or a hospital so he just had to sweat it out. I think it like to have killed him. The second time was by a copperhead back in the 84. He went to the hospital for that one. It bit him in the hand and his arm swelled up like Popeye. It is pretty common to get snake bit in Arkansas because the state is absolutely full of snakes. A lot of guys get bit while hauling hay at night down there.
 
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