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Thread: Unemployment Rate Set To Plunge As Bill To Restore Jobless Benefits Fails To Pass Sen

  1. #111
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    Re: Unemployment Rate Set To Plunge As Bill To Restore Jobless Benefits Fails To Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Do I understand you right, the more money government gives to people the more the economy improves. If that is the case, to get a roaring economy going the government should give all Americans money every week. Like a $1,000 a week for starters and move it higher if the economy is not improving fast enough. Is this not the premise of your claim that government giving money to people improves the economy. Then the government should flood people with money and lets get our economy roaring.
    Consumer spending is the primary driver of economic growth. Unemployment benefits serve the purpose of maintaining consumption patterns and financial solvency in the absence of ordinary income. However, to suggest the Government cut a check to all Americans on a weekly basis is needlessly extreme.

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    Re: Unemployment Rate Set To Plunge As Bill To Restore Jobless Benefits Fails To Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Am I reading that chart right? About 500,000 people working part time but needing full time work?
    It is 5.5% of the U6 unemployment metric.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Unemployment Rate Set To Plunge As Bill To Restore Jobless Benefits Fails To Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Consumer spending is the primary driver of economic growth. Unemployment benefits serve the purpose of maintaining consumption patterns and financial solvency in the absence of ordinary income. However, to suggest the Government cut a check to all Americans on a weekly basis is needlessly extreme.
    Why is that extreme, Obama has spent a trillion on a stimulus that has failed, why not give all that money to the People as you suggest that improves the economy. If government giving money to the people improves the ecomony, then the more the government gives the people the more the economy improves. This is your premise, is it not.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
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    Re: Unemployment Rate Set To Plunge As Bill To Restore Jobless Benefits Fails To Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Why is that extreme
    For obvious reasons. Since tax rate reductions have a stimulative effect, why not simply eliminate all taxes? Practicality you say? Political feasibility? Negative externalities?

    Obama has spent a trillion on a stimulus that has failed
    Less than a trillion, dispersed over time and a substantial portion of which went towards tax credits, cuts and shoring up entitlements in the wake of the financial crisis. It was hardly the careless spending spree you've suggested.

    why not give all that money to the People as you suggest that improves the economy. If government giving money to the people improves the ecomony, then the more the government gives the people the more the economy improves. This is your premise, is it not.
    In some circumstances and quantities, yes. No need at all to dumb down the argument as you've attempted to.

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    Re: Unemployment Rate Set To Plunge As Bill To Restore Jobless Benefits Fails To Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Here you go!



    A shout out to Pinqy for providing a more historical examination.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Am I reading that chart right? About 500,000 people working part time but needing full time work?
    No you're not reading it right. The numerator is "part time for economic reasons" which is currently about 7.8 million. There are two components, though...due to slow or slack business (4,884,000) and due to inability to find a full time job (2,592,000) The remainder are part time because the work is seasonal and full timers starting or ending work that week.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Unemployment Rate Set To Plunge As Bill To Restore Jobless Benefits Fails To Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    For obvious reasons. Since tax rate reductions have a stimulative effect, why not simply eliminate all taxes? Practicality you say? Political feasibility? Negative externalities?
    Sure why not, it is your premise that government giving all Americans more money improves the economy. However almost 50% of all Americans do not pay any federal income taxes. So therfore your premise is not fully fulfilled, government still has to give money of equal amount of the tax re leaf to all the other 50% of Americans to fully stimulate the economy.

    Less than a trillion, dispersed over time and a substantial portion of which went towards tax credits, cuts and shoring up entitlements in the wake of the financial crisis. It was hardly the careless spending spree you've suggested.


    In some circumstances and quantities, yes. No need at all to dumb down the argument as you've attempted to.
    The fact is you say giving money to the people improves the economy, thus the more the government gives the people the more the economy grows. This is your premise and belief.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
    Liberals - Tax, Borrow, Spend, and Give Free Stuff
    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

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    Re: Unemployment Rate Set To Plunge As Bill To Restore Jobless Benefits Fails To Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I'd add..

    Are you looking for full time work?
    Are you currently working full time?

    I think that including the people who have given up finding full time work and are making do with a part time job (or perhaps more than one) would yield some interesting statistics.
    They already do both: Employed and Unemployed full and part-time workers
    Employed Persons by class of worker and part-time status
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Unemployment Rate Set To Plunge As Bill To Restore Jobless Benefits Fails To Pass

    Why not solve simple poverty with existing infrastructure at the rock bottom cost of a form of minimum wage in any at-will employment State. It would increase the circulation of money in our Institution of money based markets under our form of Capitalism.

    By analogy:

    If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in government to the utmost.

    - Aristotle

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    Re: Unemployment Rate Set To Plunge As Bill To Restore Jobless Benefits Fails To Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    And what it SHOULD do - imo - is count every single person as part of the work force if they a) want to work and b) can work...period. And that should include people who cannot take a job because they are involved in a commitment (like school) that they would not have gotten into had they believed they could have gotten a job had they tried before they entered into the commitment.
    Why? I've explained why the government uses the definition it does (and has for almost a hundred years, and used by most countries in the world), but what is your definition meant to reveal when you're including so many people who can't be hired?

    LUS - the BLS should ask every single person under the legal retirement age who claims to be retired whether they would like to work if they could find a job; or not. And if they do want a job - they should be counted as part of the labor force until they are past the legal retirement age.
    There is no "legal retirement age" in the U.S. And it's unclear why you would have the age restriction. And plenty of retired people look for or get a post-retirement job...and they're classified as appropriate for what they do.

    and btw - there is absolutely no way you can know that successful pressure has not been put on the BLS from elected officials behind closed doors to legally alter the stats/how they are tabulated to show a lower unemployment rate.
    Well, I did work there for a decade, and I know the procedures far better than you, so my opinion is more informed.
    The Current Population Survey, which is where the Labor Force data comes from, is a joint project between BLS and census, plus BEA has input, and there is oversight. Too many people involved. Besides, I'm not even sure what kind of changes you could have in mind.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Unemployment Rate Set To Plunge As Bill To Restore Jobless Benefits Fails To Pass

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Why? I've explained why the government uses the definition it does (and has for almost a hundred years, and used by most countries in the world), but what is your definition meant to reveal when you're including so many people who can't be hired?
    Because I think it offers a better window onto the employment situation in America. Includes more people that should, imo, be included.

    As for it being used by lots of countries forever - I could care less. There are/were plenty of things that went on for decades that were wrong...slavery comes to mind. Longevity and righteousness are not mutually exclusive.

    There is no "legal retirement age" in the U.S. And it's unclear why you would have the age restriction. And plenty of retired people look for or get a post-retirement job...and they're classified as appropriate for what they do.
    It was a figure of speech - you cannot include 102 year old people. No McDonald's is going to hire a 102 year old man - except as a publicity stunt. Then call it 65 for arguments sake. The BLS is leaving a ton of people out just because they are technically retired. Many of whom - as I showed in a previous link - probably should be counted as in the work force but unemployed because they only retired when they did because they could not find work.


    Well, I did work there for a decade, and I know the procedures far better than you, so my opinion is more informed.
    The Current Population Survey, which is where the Labor Force data comes from, is a joint project between BLS and census, plus BEA has input, and there is oversight. Too many people involved. Besides, I'm not even sure what kind of changes you could have in mind.
    You are (according to you) closer and thusly, obviously more biased then I on this.

    I will not argue this - you believe they are not influenced from elected officials; I do.

    Nothing further to say as neither can factually prove their position is true.


    In fact, further discussion on all of this seems pointless - there is NO WAY you are changing my mind on this (that I could possibly imagine).

    And obviously there is probably no way I am changing yours.

    So why chat about it further...let's just agree to disagree and move on?
    Last edited by DA60; 01-19-14 at 02:22 AM.

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