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Thread: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco[W:54]

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    Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    emphasis added by bubba
    and that sentence should actually read as follows:
    IOW, she was dead when the EMS crew EVENTUALLY got there.
    and according to the stories i have read, her death was not declared until after she arrived at the hospital
    You and Reinoe should know that only doctors declare death, and doctors do not make up a normal part of any EMS crew, so it stands to reason that she was declared dead at the hospital. A declaration of death is a formal event, with an attendant certificate the doctor must sign declaring the apparent cause of death unless an autopsy is requested. Florence Genova was dead before the EMS crew arrived. They attempted to revive her. She was transported to the hospital and declared dead. You guys can attempt to twist this around anyway you want, but you can't change the facts. The average response time for EMS services across the country is around 8 minutes. The EMS crew arrived in 7. They were delayed, but they still managed to arrive a full minute before the average because they were in close proximity when the call came in.

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    Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    The second link is not yours. It's mine with a source attached. People who wish to actually prove the things they say often use them to...prove the things they say. I'm noticing a distinct lack of sources from you. It's almost as if you're making up a bunch of crap.
    I've read nearly everything available on the subject. Death certificates are not publicly available. Had you bothered to do the same, you would not be making the argument you are.

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    Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    "almost" was not needed in that sentence
    I know but I want to make sure I'm not infracted. Better to be safe than sorry. humbolt's not worth it.
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    Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    I've read nearly everything available on the subject. Death certificates are not publicly available. Had you bothered to do the same, you would not be making the argument you are.
    My argument is that people should prove the things they say. You've certainly claim to have read up on the subject so why are you so selfish as to not share with us the documents you claim to have read? tsk tsk, sharing is caring dontcha know? I look forward to reading about how the woman was dead before the paramedics arrived from a legitimate news source.
    Trump Attacked A Syrian Airfield. Trump will be a one-term president.

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    Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    You and Reinoe should know that only doctors declare death, and doctors do not make up a normal part of any EMS crew, so it stands to reason that she was declared dead at the hospital. A declaration of death is a formal event, with an attendant certificate the doctor must sign declaring the apparent cause of death unless an autopsy is requested. Florence Genova was dead before the EMS crew arrived. They attempted to revive her. She was transported to the hospital and declared dead. You guys can attempt to twist this around anyway you want, but you can't change the facts. The average response time for EMS services across the country is around 8 minutes. The EMS crew arrived in 7. They were delayed, but they still managed to arrive a full minute before the average because they were in close proximity when the call came in.
    so, because they were delayed to the scene, due to traffic, they were too late to save her
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    Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    My argument is that people should prove the things they say. You've certainly claim to have read up on the subject so why are you so selfish as to not share with us the documents you claim to have read? tsk tsk, sharing is caring dontcha know? I look forward to reading about how the woman was dead before the paramedics arrived from a legitimate news source.
    If you will read any of the bazillion reports which describe the actions of the EMS crew you would understand that they attempted to resuscitate her because her heart had stopped. That's why she never came out of the bathroom. They're all over Google - just pick any of those that describe the EMS crew actions. There are pages and pages of them. I'm not doing your work for you since you seem to be claiming the woman had some little event that would have been reversed had the EMS crew arrived sooner. That is clearly not the case. And BTW, reviving a person who's heart has stopped beating is relatively rare - not the stuff of that which is shown on television in which a quick defib is administered and everybody is fine - just fine again and everybody returns to normal. Actually, even those few who are resuscitated rarely fully recover. Your argument is basically that Christie should be held accountable for this woman's death, and not that people should prove what they say because you could easily prove it for yourself had you bothered to read all that's available rather than those which support your argument exclusively. Mrs. Genova was dead when the EMS crew arrived. She was transported to the hospital where she was officially pronounced dead. The circumstances on the highway surrounding that are terrible, but they did not contribute to her death. She died because her heart stopped, and the EMS crew could not re-start it.

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    Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    so, because they were delayed to the scene, due to traffic, they were too late to save her
    Yeah, you stick with that and continue to ignore the rather significant fact that she was dead when they got there and was likely dead even before the 911 call was made. The fact that death generally follows sudden cardiac arrest is lost in all of this because the politically insane feel there's ground to plow.

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    Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Yeah, you stick with that and continue to ignore the rather significant fact that she was dead when they got there and was likely dead even before the 911 call was made. The fact that death generally follows sudden cardiac arrest is lost in all of this because the politically insane feel there's ground to plow.
    while you ignore the position of the medically trained first responders that the traffic contributed to her death
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    while you ignore the position of the medically trained first responders that the traffic contributed to her death
    Oh, for heavens sake. Here, read this and ask yourself why in the hell the EMS crew was trying to revive her if she wasn't already dead:

    Florence Genova Death Not From George Washington Bridge Closings: Daughter

    I've already pointed out the 7 minutes is better than the national average response time. Chances are extremely slim the EMS crew would have been able to resuscitate her in any case. (You can read about SCA and the experts will tell you resuscitation is rare). They go on in the article above to point out that she couldn't be pronounced dead until they reached the hospital, which is another element some seem to think means something other than what it really does. Mrs. Genova died in her home, and from all accounts, likely would have died in her home even if an EMS crew was living there with her. Yes, the lane closures were despicable. They did not cause this woman to die.

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    Re: Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

    This is what we are learning:

    Christie = asshole.

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