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Thread: 74% of U.S. Afghan Casualties Came After Obama Ordered Troops Increased

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    Re: 74% of U.S. Afghan Casualties Came After Obama Ordered Troops Increased

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    When you airstrike a bunch of civilians its usually used as propaganda against you for recruits for the local "mujaheddin" to fight in that "holy war"....
    If you're going to dump 30,000 men on a region and then simply leave the sitting on the ground with their thumbs up their asses instead of allowing them to do the job they were sent to do, you can't really expect results, now can you?

    Yea.... But if they never wanted it to suceed why do it in the first place?
    So he can buy time for withdrawal without looking like a weakling who abandons his allies at the earliest possible opportunity.

    Nevermind the fact that he's simply opted to do so at a slight later opportunity instead, of course.

    Why increase drone strikes in the area? And why do a massive offensive? Doenst make much since at all...
    There never was an especially massive "offensive" in the first place; just some minor skirmishing here and there.

    The only reason they've agreed to expand the drone campaign is because it is comparatively quiet and costs little in the way of political capital.

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    Re: 74% of U.S. Afghan Casualties Came After Obama Ordered Troops Increased

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    When you airstrike a bunch of civilians its usually used as propaganda against you for recruits for the local "mujaheddin" to fight in that "holy war"....



    Yea.... But if they never wanted it to suceed why do it in the first place? Why increase drone strikes in the area? And why do a massive offensive? Doenst make much since at all...
    Because the White House never the less hoped it would succeed and it was probably politically impossible for the President to do nothing, nor could he put an immediate withdrawal into motion. The surge was an effort to provide both political cover and practical breathing space for the withdrawal from Afghanistan.

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    Re: 74% of U.S. Afghan Casualties Came After Obama Ordered Troops Increased

    I would have thought a pussy like Obama would have wanted to withdraw from Afghanistan on his first day in office. What a bad idea Afghanistan was. The retaliatory attacks Bush made after 9/11 were well handled and well executed. Mission was accomplished. Then, for inexplicable reasons we decide that it's a great idea to stay and fight a obviously unwinnable war in a nation of religious lunatics. Good luck with that. But Obama was probably forced to be a manly man and really get over there and kick him some Taliban ass. Because if we had quit, he would have been laughed out of office.

    We are victims of our own savagery. We feel compelled to intervene in the most ludicrous situations. As if we had no problems of our own, we must fix someone else's.

    "We have met the enemy, and he is us"
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    Re: 74% of U.S. Afghan Casualties Came After Obama Ordered Troops Increased

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    If you're going to dump 30,000 men on a region and then simply leave the sitting on the ground with their thumbs up their asses instead of allowing them to do the job they were sent to do, you can't really expect results, now can you?
    There "job" is to indiscriminately bomb and invade every village and house they can find? I thought part of the mission was "winning the hearts and minds"...


    So he can buy time for withdrawal without looking like a weakling who abandons his allies at the earliest possible opportunity.

    Nevermind the fact that he's simply opted to do so at a slight later opportunity instead, of course.
    So he wanted "time to withdrawal" so he sent more troops to withdrawal?

    There never was an especially massive "offensive" in the first place; just some minor skirmishing here and there.
    U.S. Marines Open a New Offensive in Afghanistan - Photo Essays - TIME
    US prepares for what could be last major Afghan offensive | Fox News
    NATO launches major offensive in Afghanistan - CNN.com
    US Marines Launch Large Offensive In Afghanistan

    There was in fact many major offenses in Afghanistan as a whole during that surge.


    The only reason they've agreed to expand the drone campaign is because it is comparatively quiet and costs little in the way of political capital.
    Well when your fighting an enemy that takes place with a lot of hit and run attacks its hard to get into all out combat.


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    Re: 74% of U.S. Afghan Casualties Came After Obama Ordered Troops Increased

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Because the White House never the less hoped it would succeed and it was probably politically impossible for the President to do nothing, nor could he put an immediate withdrawal into motion. The surge was an effort to provide both political cover and practical breathing space for the withdrawal from Afghanistan.
    Then why would POTUS take the option the compiled with the 2nd larges troops in the Afghanistan?


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    Re: 74% of U.S. Afghan Casualties Came After Obama Ordered Troops Increased

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    We are victims of our own savagery.
    We are victims of our own latent bi-polar schizophrenia.

    It's like we get ourselves all in a self-righteous huff about how we're going to give someone the beating of a lifetime, and then lose our nerve halfway through delivering the first punch. Sure, any fist that connects with it's target is still going to do damage anyway regardless, but that's not really going to help you much when your heart simply isn't in the fight, and you haven't got the will to see things through to their conclusion.

    The only inevitable outcome such an attitude can result in is defeat.

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    Re: 74% of U.S. Afghan Casualties Came After Obama Ordered Troops Increased

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Then why would POTUS take the option the compiled with the 2nd larges troops in the Afghanistan?
    I don't understand your question. Why would he choose the option he did? Because it was a compromise number between the minimalist approach that Biden and others favored and the heavily modified but maximal position McChrystal took and still seemed large enough so that it 'might' tip the scales while clearing a path for a withdrawal.

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    Re: 74% of U.S. Afghan Casualties Came After Obama Ordered Troops Increased

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    There "job" is to indiscriminately bomb and invade every village and house they can find? I thought part of the mission was "winning the hearts and minds"...
    Their "job" is to kill the enemy and break the backbone of the insurgency badly enough that the local populace might be willing to stop cowering in fear of them.

    The Afghans ultimately respect brute strength a Hell of a lot more than they respect kindness or consideration.

    So he wanted "time to withdrawal" so he sent more troops to withdrawal?
    Yes, because it would have been political suicide to simply withdraw immediately.

    I fail to see how this is a hard concept.

    There was in fact many major offenses in Afghanistan as a whole during that surge.
    Just because the media or military propaganda machine calls something "major" doesn't mean that it really is.

    The surge wasn't "major" enough, and never was. That's always been the problem.

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    Re: 74% of U.S. Afghan Casualties Came After Obama Ordered Troops Increased

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I don't understand your question. Why would he choose the option he did? Because it was a compromise number between the minimalist approach that Biden and others favored and the heavily modified but maximal position McChrystal took and still seemed large enough so that it 'might' tip the scales while clearing a path for a withdrawal.
    He had many other choices besides the troop surge such as limited air strikes, pulling out completely, leaving only advisers, and a barrage of increasing troops such as a surge another 40,000 troops, a middle scenario sending about 30,000 more troops, and a lower alternative involving 20,000 to 25,000 reinforcements. He did infact send the middle ground but i dont see how the made a lick of a difference seeing that its done little to no good but made the situation more unstable.


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    Re: 74% of U.S. Afghan Casualties Came After Obama Ordered Troops Increased

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Their "job" is to kill the enemy and break the backbone of the insurgency badly enough that the local populace might be willing to stop cowering in fear of them.

    The Afghans ultimately respect brute strength a Hell of a lot more than they respect kindness or consideration.
    So kill as many of civilians until they respect you... Howd that work in Vietnam, Iraq?



    Yes, because it would have been political suicide to simply withdraw immediately.

    I fail to see how this is a hard concept.
    With the vast vast vast vast majority supporting withdrawl for quite sometime now not to well...


    Just because the media or military propaganda machine calls something "major" doesn't mean that it really is.

    The surge wasn't "major" enough, and never was. That's always been the problem.
    Major in whose book? Yours personally?


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