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Thread: Satanists Unveil 7-Foot Baphomet Statue For Oklahoma State Capitol

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    Re: Satanists Unveil 7-Foot Baphomet Statue For Oklahoma State Capitol



    Oh, the humanity.




    Quote Originally Posted by RogueWarrior View Post
    Atheists are the least trusted group in America. Even gay people are more trusted.
    They are vilified, marginalized even hated.
    One does tend to get tired of the treatment.
    Only since the internet can atheists find each other without the exposure to ridicule. We are finding there are more of us out there than thought possible.

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    Re: Satanists Unveil 7-Foot Baphomet Statue For Oklahoma State Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Dibbler View Post
    The statue is appropriate for conservative states like OK, as it represents the GOP political propoganda machine and its effect on kids.

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    Re: Satanists Unveil 7-Foot Baphomet Statue For Oklahoma State Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Huh? Are you serious? I quoted your entire post not half an inch above that statement. What I did was called paraphrasing. I summarized your inconsistent, playing-the-victim whining into a shorter statement.
    Paraphrasing??? That's not true at all. Again, quote me correctly or don't bother.

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    Re: Satanists Unveil 7-Foot Baphomet Statue For Oklahoma State Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The point is that the Ten Commandments haven't had much of an effect on Western Civilization. Which laws or judicial philosophies originated with the ten commandments? Bans against murder, theft, lying, and adultery have existed since at least Ur (ie before Abraham on the Biblical timeline). Innocent before being proven guilty and the right to a fair trial? That's Hammurabi. A trial by 12 jurors comes from the Vikings.
    That other groups had laws similar to the 10 Commandments is not open to dispute, nor that many writings based on Christianity have contributed to western culture and laws. The 10 Commandments serve as a reminder to the laws of man and how they are handed down over the generations, that law is something that have always binds societies together in order that we can live in peace with each other..

    If the 10 Commandments are insignificant it's amazing that so many atheists claim to be offended by them.

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    Re: Satanists Unveil 7-Foot Baphomet Statue For Oklahoma State Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That other groups had laws similar to the 10 Commandments is not open to dispute, nor that many writings based on Christianity have contributed to western culture and laws. The 10 Commandments serve as a reminder to the laws of man and how they are handed down over the generations, that law is something that have always binds societies together in order that we can live in peace with each other..

    If the 10 Commandments are insignificant it's amazing that so many atheists claim to be offended by them.
    Typically an atheist will not be upset by something that is rational and justified. Many of the commandments are justifiable and rational. Many are not and many things that should be commandments (in a civilized society) are not listed, in ANY VERSION of the commandments.

    Most people know the Ten Commandments — or perhaps it is better to say that they think they know the Ten Commandments. The commandments are one of those cultural products that people imagine that they understand, but in reality, they frequently can't even name all of them, let alone explain them. People who already think they know all they need are unlikely to take the time to research the subject with any great care and precision.
    my emphasis

    • The first problem is which version of the 10 commandments to install? Protestant (aka Greek, Anglican, and Reformed) versus catholic (aka Catholic and Lutheran) versus Jewish? They are very different. Many people seem to think that there is only 1 version of the commandments because they are illiterate biblically or their worldview is so narrow are to not recognize that other versions of the commandments might exist. GWB is a prime example of this (2000 campaign): <SPOILER and PRO TIP>There is no standard version, Georgieboy.

      “I have no problem with the Ten Commandments posted on the wall of every public place,” Bush told reporters.
      Asked if he preferred the Protestant, Catholic or Jewish version of the Commandments, which he must not have realized differ slightly from one another, Bush replied: “The standard version. Surely we can agree as a society on a version that everybody can agree to.”
    • The second problem is that many of the 10 commandments are religious in nature. This is a problem in of itself but also because of problem 1 above. Some of the differences mentioned above are in regards to these religious commandments.
    • The third problem are the omissions from the 10 commandments. There is no mention of prohibitions against slavery, rape, torture, bribery, extortion and many more things that civilized humans consider bad. If it is not prohibited it must be allowed or so many seem to think.


    Any time someone chooses to place a listing of the Ten Commandments in a home, office, church, or public space, they will be making choices. They will have to choose which biblical passage to rely upon, which translation to use, and typically which shortened version to use. These are all religious, linguistic, social, cultural, and political choices.

    Unfortunately, almost no one is aware of any of these factors — they see whatever listing they use as the “natural,” the “obvious,” or just the “correct” listing that requires no particular choices or input from them. This is what makes debates about the Ten Commandments so difficult. When someone is unaware of how their own background and choices have shaped their actions, it’s far more difficult to get them to make new choices and thus change. It’s also difficult to get them to understand how or why other people might have made different choices — and that those choices are just as valid or reasonable.

    Most of the commandment are not laws of man.
    If you really need to put up a monument, how about one for the bill of rights? It seems to me that too many people (up to and including presidents, congress and the SC) are forgetting these wonderful rules.
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    Re: Satanists Unveil 7-Foot Baphomet Statue For Oklahoma State Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueWarrior View Post
    Typically an atheist will not be upset by something that is rational and justified. Many of the commandments are justifiable and rational. Many are not and many things that should be commandments (in a civilized society) are not listed, in ANY VERSION of the commandments.
    Everyone believes themselves to be rational and justified. And yes, there are many other laws apart from the Ten Commandments.

    [*]The first problem is which version of the 10 commandments to install? Protestant (aka Greek, Anglican, and Reformed) versus catholic (aka Catholic and Lutheran) versus Jewish? They are very different. Many people seem to think that there is only 1 version of the commandments because they are illiterate biblically or their worldview is so narrow are to not recognize that other versions of the commandments might exist. GWB is a prime example of this (2000 campaign): <SPOILER and PRO TIP>There is no standard version, Georgieboy.
    Why are you concerned about which to install. Is your concern rational and justified or do you genuinely feel this is an important issue?

    [*]The second problem is that many of the 10 commandments are religious in nature. This is a problem in of itself but also because of problem 1 above. Some of the differences mentioned above are in regards to these religious commandments.
    And this troubles you because?

    [*]The third problem are the omissions from the 10 commandments. There is no mention of prohibitions against slavery, rape, torture, bribery, extortion and many more things that civilized humans consider bad. If it is not prohibited it must be allowed or so many seem to think. [/LIST]
    As mentioned earlier we have other laws quite apart from the Ten Commandments. You can relax.

    Most of the commandment are not laws of man.
    If you really need to put up a monument, how about one for the bill of rights? It seems to me that too many people (up to and including presidents, congress and the SC) are forgetting these wonderful rules.
    You're right. The Bill of Rights is a marvelous piece of work, as is the Constitution. More countries should adopt both, and follow them.. However there is often room for tradition as well. The Commandments do no harm, except to the Uber Sensitive.

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    Re: Satanists Unveil 7-Foot Baphomet Statue For Oklahoma State Capitol


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    Re: Satanists Unveil 7-Foot Baphomet Statue For Oklahoma State Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Paraphrasing??? That's not true at all. Again, quote me correctly or don't bother.
    As I stated, I used the quote tool to directly quote you. If you'd like to use this as an excuse to run off, feel free. You don't strike me as someone who will stand up for his convictions anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That other groups had laws similar to the 10 Commandments is not open to dispute, nor that many writings based on Christianity have contributed to western culture and laws. The 10 Commandments serve as a reminder to the laws of man and how they are handed down over the generations, that law is something that have always binds societies together in order that we can live in peace with each other..

    If the 10 Commandments are insignificant it's amazing that so many atheists claim to be offended by them.
    Our society was in no way, shape, or form, based on the 10 commandments.

    The only commandments that are laws are:
    - Don't kill
    - Don't steal
    - Don't bear false witness
    - No adultery (only in some states)

    Those are 4 things that have been around in law long before the 10 commandments and in countless number of civilizations. If you'd like to put up a plaque with the first 3 on it, feel free. But anyways, you fail, again.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 01-11-14 at 04:28 AM.
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    Re: Satanists Unveil 7-Foot Baphomet Statue For Oklahoma State Capitol

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Everyone believes themselves to be rational and justified. And yes, there are many other laws apart from the Ten Commandments.

    Why are you concerned about which to install. Is your concern rational and justified or do you genuinely feel this is an important issue?

    And this troubles you because?

    As mentioned earlier we have other laws quite apart from the Ten Commandments. You can relax.

    You're right. The Bill of Rights is a marvelous piece of work, as is the Constitution. More countries should adopt both, and follow them.. However there is often room for tradition as well. The Commandments do no harm, except to the Uber Sensitive.
    I not concerned with which to install, however those who do want to install them should be concerned. Will it be the protestant, catholic or jewish version or some combination thereof? My concern is that the wall between church and state be respected.

    1st amendment.

    Not stressed at all, but thanks.

    Disagree. Completely.
    Would you allow the religious laws of other cultures to be enshrined in the same way? There over 600 hundred jewish laws I guess their monument will be bigger. I have no idea how many other laws from hindus and muslim or any of the others. However, I don't see that flying with fundamentalists of any stripe.
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