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Senator presses NSA to reveal whether it spies on members of Congress

NIMBY said:
Yet the NYT is also in the same boat as Snowden in leaking confidential and walking the very tight rope.
I agree with Peter King's assessment of the NYT with snowden.

And find it rich that anti-NSAers think they are the only ones who opposed the Iraqi war.
I didn't hear any of that last decade .
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No idea what the Iraq war has to do with this now..
 
Anti-NSAers are now saying that Pro-NSAers supported the Iraqi war.
Just a little more dishonest spin from the Paul-bots .
TheDemSocialist said:
No idea what the Iraq war has to do with this now..
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NIMBY said:
Anti-NSAers are now saying that Pro-NSAers supported the Iraqi war.
Just a little more dishonest spin from the Paul-bots .
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Ok... Never seen or heard this..
 
TheDemSocialist said:
We already know the NSA spies on congress but by doing this action it puts the NSA in a direct minefield with the people that make the laws and can have direct authority over these programs.
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Congress has quite a lot of authority if you go by Article I section 8. But they either have farmed out that authority to different agencies and ceded more to the administration. We have more of an imperial presidency today than ever before. The members of congress who are of the same party as the one who holds the White House instead of taking pride in the institution of congress itself have become more a part of the administration. This has been happening a very long time and with each succeeding president it gets worse and worse. I think the last time congress recouped some of its powers from the presidency was right after Watergate and the class of congressmen and senators that were elected in 1974.

When you have a government as big as ours, things like what the NSA is doing or the IRS going after certain groups should be expected. We live in an era where it seems we want bigger and bigger, more and more powerful central government. Reigning in government and their agencies is really something we as a whole are not interested it. We want to turn over more and more of what government controls in our daily lives to government. We expect government to take care of us instead of we the people. We want security in a myriad of forms. From terrorists, from enemies foreign and domestic, from the daily wants, to make our lives better, to become our mommies and daddies.

I am not surprised at all with the NSA spying or the IRS targeting political groups. Things like this come from big government and we the people want big government. Limits on government is a thing of the past. What was it Thomas Jefferson said? A government big and powerful enough to give you everything you want is also big and powerful enough to take everything away. Something like that. Ben Franklin as said something akin to: Those who choose security over liberty will soon have neither. I think in the form of NSA doing what it is doing this has come to past also. We readily as a people give up liberties and freedom for security from want.

But this is what we want and vote for. We have exactly the government we deserve. 1984 waited until today to come true. But 1984 probably became a reality when the patriot act was passed. We just were moving towards it at a slower rate from the 1960 when Orwell wrote the book to the patriot act. My opinion anyway.
 
NIMBY said:
You are not familiar with the French-Canadian windmill companies who have put up four wind-mill farms "ON TOP" of Green Mtn. ridges in VT.
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Sweet how does that make him a "corporate puppet?"

He has become a corporate whore in the guise of green energy.
Sanders is quickly becoming the new Ralph Nader and we don't need him on our side anymore with Labor and Social Security .
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Because he is allowing private companies to build green energy ontop of mountains? I fail to see how this is a bad thing? Becaue its on top of a mountain? Because its a private company?
 
Perotista said:
Congress has quite a lot of authority if you go by Article I section 8. But they either have farmed out that authority to different agencies and ceded more to the administration. We have more of an imperial presidency today than ever before. The members of congress who are of the same party as the one who holds the White House instead of taking pride in the institution of congress itself have become more a part of the administration. This has been happening a very long time and with each succeeding president it gets worse and worse. I think the last time congress recouped some of its powers from the presidency was right after Watergate and the class of congressmen and senators that were elected in 1974.

When you have a government as big as ours, things like what the NSA is doing or the IRS going after certain groups should be expected. We live in an era where it seems we want bigger and bigger, more and more powerful central government. Reigning in government and their agencies is really something we as a whole are not interested it. We want to turn over more and more of what government controls in our daily lives to government. We expect government to take care of us instead of we the people. We want security in a myriad of forms. From terrorists, from enemies foreign and domestic, from the daily wants, to make our lives better, to become our mommies and daddies.

I am not surprised at all with the NSA spying or the IRS targeting political groups. Things like this come from big government and we the people want big government. Limits on government is a thing of the past. What was it Thomas Jefferson said? A government big and powerful enough to give you everything you want is also big and powerful enough to take everything away. Something like that. Ben Franklin as said something akin to: Those who choose security over liberty will soon have neither. I think in the form of NSA doing what it is doing this has come to past also. We readily as a people give up liberties and freedom for security from want.

But this is what we want and vote for. We have exactly the government we deserve. 1984 waited until today to come true. But 1984 probably became a reality when the patriot act was passed. We just were moving towards it at a slower rate from the 1960 when Orwell wrote the book to the patriot act. My opinion anyway.
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Dude! I mean I agree but, your way to nonchalant about it. You just left us with zero hope. It's 1984 in 2014 and its what we wanted so its what we got so go back to the I love Lucy reruns and don't worry about it. That just won't work for me.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Sweet how does that make him a "corporate puppet?"



Because he is allowing private companies to build green energy ontop of mountains? I fail to see how this is a bad thing? Becaue its on top of a mountain? Because its a private company?
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Have you seen the wind farms, up close, driven under them? They're awesome!
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Because he is allowing private companies to build green energy ontop of mountains??
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Sanders has been bought off by foreign companies.

Have you ever lived within mountain ranges and then watched wind-mill farms go up and destroy your view and serenity?
With locales at the bottom getting the money for schools and such.
Which never had a view to lose.
While other locales get no offset.

And think of the National Forest .
 
A coordinated effort with the strongest trucks needs to be wrapped around these windmills and yank them down all at once.
Watch the locals cheer.
Sanders is opposing a 3-year moratorium on wind-mill farms.
The former Burlington mayor lives close to Vermont Yankee Nuclear, due to close in 2014.
Montecresto said:
Have you seen the wind farms, up close, driven under them? They're awesome!
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Got EMPs?
 
Montecresto said:
Dude! I mean I agree but, your way to nonchalant about it. You just left us with zero hope. It's 1984 in 2014 and its what we wanted so its what we got so go back to the I love Lucy reruns and don't worry about it. That just won't work for me.
Click to expand...

To change things those in congress would have to become congressmen again and stop being part of an administration. That will not happen unless we get another Nixon. Members of the party in congress are more than willing to give any president of their party all the power he wants and will defend any president's power grabs, actions and executive orders because he is a member of their party. This is what I mean that those in congress of the presidents party stop being members of congress and become members of the administration. They view congress's job as giving the president everything he wants and more. Only the party out of power tries to be members of congress, but a lot of that is show as they just want to make the president look bad. Once their party enters the White House they will very quickly become part of the administration.

I am old enough to remember Sam Rayburn, Mike McCormick and Carl Albert as Speakers of the House. All three would work with any president as long as the president didn't try to infringe on congress's authority. The same be said when LBJ and Mike Mansfield were the Majority leaders of the Senate, both would work with any president, but both wouldn't let any president, even of their own party grab power away from them. All respected congress the institution, the co-equal branch of government. Not so anymore.

Also back in those days our representatives and senators were Americans first and Republicans and Democrats second. Again not so today. Nonchalant, I suppose so. I see no change or even a willingness to change on the horizon. I see the president getting more and more powerful as future presidents utilize the precedence this president has set. I see members of the party of the president going along with everything he want and everything he does.

I grew up in the 1950's, Washington D.C. might as well been on Mars for all the influence they had over our daily lives. Today you can't go to the bathroom without government playing some role in it. But this is what most Americans have chosen. They want big and powerful government, NSA spying, no big deal as long as I get healthcare, unemployment benefits, welfare payments. IRS targeting people and organizations, no big deal as long as I have social security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, EIC's, tax breaks, subsidies etc. Government dictating what a citizen has to buy, regulations governing a citizens daily life, no big deal as long as the government takes care of my daily wants regardless of the decisions I have made in life, what actions I did wrong. This is what we want today. Get use to it.

There is no changing it. Switch parties and presidents, it is still business as usual. Government will continue to grow and become Omni powerful. The people will be here to serve the state, government, not vice versa. Think about it, isn't that exactly what is happening today.
 
NIMBY said:
Sanders has been bought off by foreign companies.
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Oh give me a break. You literally have no proof of this other than you dont have as good as a view as you once did.


Have you ever lived within mountain ranges and then watched wind-mill farms go up and destroy your view and serenity?
With locales at the bottom getting the money for schools and such.
Which never had a view to lose.
While other locales get no offset.

And think of the National Forest .
Click to expand...
So your mad that green energy made your view bad. Sounds a lot like Donald Trump getting pissed that his view from his golf course was impeded by coastal wind farms.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Oh give me a break.
Click to expand...
No and this
You literally have no proof of this
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has nothing to do with this
other than you dont have as good as a view as you once did.
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You sound like a corporate polluting neighbor.
Are the French-Canadian companies building the wind-mill farms?
Yes or NO.



So your mad that green energy made your view bad. Sounds a lot like Donald Trump getting pissed that his view from his golf course was impeded by coastal wind farms.[/QUOTE]
 
NIMBY said:
No and this has nothing to do with this You sound like a corporate polluting neighbor.
Click to expand...
Has nothing to do with proof? So im just gonna take your word for it? You cant provide any factual proof?

Are the French-Canadian companies building the wind-mill farms?
Click to expand...
I dont even know if they are...

Yes or NO.
Click to expand...
I dont know nor do i see it as a problem because your mad that green energy made your view bad. Sounds a lot like Donald Trump getting pissed that his view from his golf course was impeded by coastal wind farms.
 
Perotista said:
To change things those in congress would have to become congressmen again and stop being part of an administration. That will not happen unless we get another Nixon. Members of the party in congress are more than willing to give any president of their party all the power he wants and will defend any president's power grabs, actions and executive orders because he is a member of their party. This is what I mean that those in congress of the presidents party stop being members of congress and become members of the administration. They view congress's job as giving the president everything he wants and more. Only the party out of power tries to be members of congress, but a lot of that is show as they just want to make the president look bad. Once their party enters the White House they will very quickly become part of the administration.

I am old enough to remember Sam Rayburn, Mike McCormick and Carl Albert as Speakers of the House. All three would work with any president as long as the president didn't try to infringe on congress's authority. The same be said when LBJ and Mike Mansfield were the Majority leaders of the Senate, both would work with any president, but both wouldn't let any president, even of their own party grab power away from them. All respected congress the institution, the co-equal branch of government. Not so anymore.

Also back in those days our representatives and senators were Americans first and Republicans and Democrats second. Again not so today. Nonchalant, I suppose so. I see no change or even a willingness to change on the horizon. I see the president getting more and more powerful as future presidents utilize the precedence this president has set. I see members of the party of the president going along with everything he want and everything he does.

I grew up in the 1950's, Washington D.C. might as well been on Mars for all the influence they had over our daily lives. Today you can't go to the bathroom without government playing some role in it. But this is what most Americans have chosen. They want big and powerful government, NSA spying, no big deal as long as I get healthcare, unemployment benefits, welfare payments. IRS targeting people and organizations, no big deal as long as I have social security, Medicare, Medicaid, SNAP, EIC's, tax breaks, subsidies etc. Government dictating what a citizen has to buy, regulations governing a citizens daily life, no big deal as long as the government takes care of my daily wants regardless of the decisions I have made in life, what actions I did wrong. This is what we want today. Get use to it.

There is no changing it. Switch parties and presidents, it is still business as usual. Government will continue to grow and become Omni powerful. The people will be here to serve the state, government, not vice versa. Think about it, isn't that exactly what is happening today.
Click to expand...

Great post! ... :thumbs:

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:
 
NIMBY said:
Sanders has been bought off by foreign companies.

Have you ever lived within mountain ranges and then watched wind-mill farms go up and destroy your view and serenity?
With locales at the bottom getting the money for schools and such.
Which never had a view to lose.
While other locales get no offset.

And think of the National Forest .
Click to expand...

Sanders has been bought off? Ok, sure
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I dont know nor do i see it as a problem because your mad that green energy made your view bad. Sounds a lot like Donald Trump getting pissed that his view from his golf course was impeded by coastal wind farms.
Click to expand...

It isn't my view.
I learn a lot passing through VT each time to Maine.
I have worked there before and know how the people feel.
Donald Trump is a poor excuse for a deflection.

Sanders has POTUS ambitions and is trying to make a name for himself on NSA, as Nader would.
Sanders' no-compromise attitude on Labor and Social Security has hurt the DEM. party.
He is as dangerous as Nader, who gave us Bush in 2000.

We in Illinois are also blessed with the unsightly wind-farms, built after locals settle and build their homes.
We have no studies yet on long-term exposure to the frequency and intensity of the EMPs from these wind-farms.
Our solar farm does a much nicer job.
 
NIMBY said:
It isn't my view.
I learn a lot passing through VT each time to Maine.
I have worked there before and know how the people feel.
Donald Trump is a poor excuse for a deflection.

Sanders has POTUS ambitions and is trying to make a name for himself on NSA, as Nader would.
Sanders' no-compromise attitude on Labor and Social Security has hurt the DEM. party.
He is as dangerous as Nader, who gave us Bush in 2000.

We in Illinois are also blessed with the unsightly wind-farms, built after locals settle and build their homes.
We have no studies yet on long-term exposure to the frequency and intensity of the EMPs from these wind-farms.
Our solar farm does a much nicer job.
Click to expand...

So you know how people feel? You would know he is the 3rd most popular senator in America... You would also know he accepts no corporate donations to his campaign. And i have no idea what your talking about with wind farms.
 
Margolis: NIMBY here, there and everywhere
TheDemSocialist said:
So you know how people feel? You would know he is the 3rd most popular senator in America... You would also know he accepts no corporate donations to his campaign. And i have no idea what your talking about with wind farms.
Click to expand...

Well now you know what a wind farm looks like.
And my handle on DP came befrore this specific entity, but I'm glad to be on the side of the locals.
Patrick Leahy is the one good Senator VT has .
 
NIMBY said:
Margolis: NIMBY here, there and everywhere


Well now you know what a wind farm looks like.
Click to expand...
I know what a windfarm looks like

And my handle on DP came befrore this specific entity, but I'm glad to be on the side of the locals.
Patrick Leahy is the one good Senator VT has .
Click to expand...
You do realize the Senator Leahy has also been a huge supporter of this wind energy project as well correct?

And about this "foreign companies" Senator Sanders is a "puppet" of can you name them?
 
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