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Thread: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164, 712]

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    Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164, 712]

    Dangerous Minds | Get your popcorn ready: Bill Nye the science guy to debate idiot Creation Museum founder Ken Ham

    I hope the mods let it fly that I slightly changed the title so as not to start with an insult.

    At any rate, this should be interesting....


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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Idiot is about the nicest word I'd use to describe Ken Ham.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Idiot is about the nicest word I'd use to describe Ken Ham.
    And bigot is about the nicest word I'd use to describe Bill Nye.

    My first question would be, how far do people expect to get in a philosophical discussion that begins with insults? Not far, I hope.

    I'm not one of those people who believes in a strictly literal interpretation of the book of Genesis, but what is so unbelievable about the prospect of a creative intelligence?

    We have evolved and are still evolving, are we not?
    Isn't it possible that life exists (or has existed) on other planets? There are trillions of them after all, many of them just like ours.
    Isn't it reasonable to assume that the life on other planets has also evolved or is still evolving, just like us?
    Isn't it reasonable to assume that life on other planets could have evolved into something that is beyond our understanding?
    If you could create life, would you? We already can create and manipulate life, and we are little more than primates dragging our knuckles through the mud.
    Isn't it fair to assume that another being with the ability to create life would use that ability?

    I know, there are multiple conclusionary leaps involved here, but which part is absolutely unbelievable? Which part is arguably impossible?

    I don't agree with Ham's vision of the universe, nor do I agree with Nye's, but it's hard to find common ground when you are arguing from the two extreme ends of the debate.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    I don't know why he would debate a creationist. That debate was settled over 100 years ago. By debating them you give the appearance of legitimacy to their arguments when there is no legitimacy to them. Would you debate someone that claimed the earth was flat? Would you debate someone that claimed the earth was the center of the universe? How about debating someone that believed that mental illness resulted from demonic possession? How about debating someone that rejected the law of gravity and instead asserted that objects fall to the earth due to God's divine force acting upon them?

    There are two fundamental laws in Biology:

    1. All of the phenomena of biology, the entities and the processes, are ultimately obedient to the laws of physics and chemistry. Not immediately reducible to them, but ultimately consistent and in consilience with them, by a cause and effect explanation.

    2. All biological phenomena, these entities and processes that define life itself, have arisen by evolution through natural selection.

    The fact that some ignorant fundamentalists don't accept that has does not call those laws into question. It merely demonstrates their ignorance. I am all for scientists doing a better job of communicating the science behind evolution to the masses, but debating some nut and thus giving legitimacy to that nut's position is a bad idea in my opinion.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by GJ Flash View Post
    And bigot is about the nicest word I'd use to describe Bill Nye.

    My first question would be, how far do people expect to get in a philosophical discussion that begins with insults? Not far, I hope.

    I'm not one of those people who believes in a strictly literal interpretation of the book of Genesis, but what is so unbelievable about the prospect of a creative intelligence?

    We have evolved and are still evolving, are we not?
    Isn't it possible that life exists (or has existed) on other planets? There are trillions of them after all, many of them just like ours.
    Isn't it reasonable to assume that the life on other planets has also evolved or is still evolving, just like us?
    Isn't it reasonable to assume that life on other planets could have evolved into something that is beyond our understanding?
    If you could create life, would you? We already can create and manipulate life, and we are little more than primates dragging our knuckles through the mud.
    Isn't it fair to assume that another being with the ability to create life would use that ability?

    I know, there are multiple conclusionary leaps involved here, but which part is absolutely unbelievable? Which part is arguably impossible?

    I don't agree with Ham's vision of the universe, nor do I agree with Nye's, but it's hard to find common ground when you are arguing from the two extreme ends of the debate.
    You have, unwittingly I believe, struck the on the exact reason why Bill Nye should debate creation. You ask what part of your scenarios are unbelievable...therein lies the problem. Debating observable scienctific fact with belief. You cannot refute a belief system. A belief system can only be changed by the person holding the belief. You cannot refute observable science with belief because observable science requires factual evidence. Beliefs are just that because they have no observable facts to back them up ergo they are beliefs and not knowledge.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by GJ Flash View Post
    And bigot is about the nicest word I'd use to describe Bill Nye.
    What makes you say he's a bigot?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Just an FYI, Ken Ham is a "young earth creationist." His views do not represent many who believe God created the universe. Many others believe the Gap Theory as most likely what happened.

    Gap creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    More embrace Day Age Creationism.

    Day-age creationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Nevertheless, the Bible does seem to indicate there are certain things believers must be correct about such as faith in Jesus' substitutionary punishment to legally fulfill the divine requirements of justice as the only path to forgiveness before God. Being accurate on how the universe began, how long it took, understanding quantum mechanics or having a firm grasp of the theory of relativity from the perspective of an outside of earth location and being able to reconcile it with the Genesis account is not required by God to be forgiven of sins and eligible for eternal life from what I understand.

    1 Corinthians 13:12
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    You have, unwittingly I believe, struck the on the exact reason why Bill Nye should debate creation. You ask what part of your scenarios are unbelievable...therein lies the problem. Debating observable scienctific fact with belief. You cannot refute a belief system. A belief system can only be changed by the person holding the belief. You cannot refute observable science with belief because observable science requires factual evidence. Beliefs are just that because they have no observable facts to back them up ergo they are beliefs and not knowledge.
    Unless you (or Bill) were here when the Earth was created, the circumstances of it's creation are neither fact nor observable.
    We can make a series of logical conclusions based on the available evidence, but that isn't quite the same as "fact".
    They are arguing two different belief systems. True, one belief system has more evidence than the other, but they are belief systems nonetheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    What makes you say he's a bigot?
    His intolerant comments regarding creationists (and their children).
    School of Fail: Bill Nye's Warning To Parents - Cheezburger
    I define bigotry as intolerance towards the beliefs of others, which Bill has demonstrated numerous times.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by GJ Flash View Post
    Unless you (or Bill) were here when the Earth was created, the circumstances of it's creation are neither fact nor observable.
    We can make a series of logical conclusions based on the available evidence, but that isn't quite the same as "fact".
    They are arguing two different belief systems. True, one belief system has more evidence than the other, but they are belief systems nonetheless.



    His intolerant comments regarding creationists (and their children).
    School of Fail: Bill Nye's Warning To Parents - Cheezburger
    I define bigotry as intolerance towards the beliefs of others, which Bill has demonstrated numerous times.
    Evolution is an observable fact based not only on fossil evidence but now on DNA evidence also. There is observable scientific fact that supports evolution. It is not a belief system. To equate the two is fundementally misunderstand both evolution and belief systems in general. You want to hold the belief that there is some sort of intelligence behind evolution that is fine but that is a belief. It is not supported by any observable facts. Evolution is an observable fact. The two are not equivelent. To make them so is to draw false equivelency.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by GJ Flash View Post
    Unless you (or Bill) were here when the Earth was created, the circumstances of it's creation are neither fact nor observable.
    We can make a series of logical conclusions based on the available evidence, but that isn't quite the same as "fact".
    They are arguing two different belief systems. True, one belief system has more evidence than the other, but they are belief systems nonetheless.



    His intolerant comments regarding creationists (and their children).
    School of Fail: Bill Nye's Warning To Parents - Cheezburger
    I define bigotry as intolerance towards the beliefs of others, which Bill has demonstrated numerous times.
    That "belief system" is called "science", and it is evidence based reasoning open for anyone to challenge. Your belief system is based on a single ancient book. You can not even begin to compare the two. The facts are simple: Either the earth actually is billions of years old, or it isn't and your god just placed an undeniable amount of evidence suggesting it is older.

    What possible reason could he have to make everything except his holy book support an old earth?


    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Dangerous Minds | Get your popcorn ready: Bill Nye the science guy to debate idiot Creation Museum founder Ken Ham

    I hope the mods let it fly that I slightly changed the title so as not to start with an insult.

    At any rate, this should be interesting....
    It seems like Ken Ham is already sticking his fingers in his ears. The youtube video he posted has comments disabled.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 01-03-14 at 01:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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