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Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164, 712]

Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

1)You don't know what evolution is so you're not qualified to say where evolution is or isn't proven.[/quote]

I know quite well what it is. I also know it's not provable beyond a reasonable doubt.

2)If the debate were merely between a position of faith and one of science, then you might have a point. However, it's far from that innocuous as those in favor of creationism want it taught as a valid scientific theory alongside evolution in science classes.

In my mind until evolution or any other scientific theory if the creation of the world can be proven, both should be discussed and neither should be promoted over any other.

This is the prize that creationists are striving for, so they really do in fact have to show that creationism has a legitimate place in science, not merely that it's based on faith, and that is why your scenario is a fantasy.

Honestly, I believe that decision should be left up to the local school board, as should all educational decisions. Then again I will hone - school any child I ever have so things like this aren't an issue.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

The Bible was written by other people :lamo


Just as MANY people (not YOU obviously) do NO research but are just obnoxious little pricks clinging to the works of others and looking for ways to ridicule others.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Science has never disproved God, and it probably never will... unless you are a faith-based person and base the existence of God on things like; the world has to be flat, the world has to be stationary and not revolve, the Sun the Moon and the stars are moving, dinosaur bones are an atheist conspirarcy, evolution is a lie, etc.

Science is not your enemy. Its sad to see people uncomfortable with their children learning science. If you take a science class and then start to question God, then sit down and work that out with yourself. Perhaps you were just basing the existence of God on a faulty assumption and misunderstanding you had about the world or universe. Just because science says you're wrong about the world being flat, it doesn't mean there's no God.

Science isn't out to to prove God doesn't exist, so don't get angry about science and scientific theory. Don't expect to hear God mentioned in theories. Its not a conspiracy.
its cute that you want to continue to pretend I somehow view science as an 'enemy'.

Now...perhaps you will entertain with which theory created by someone other than yourself you 'believe'. You know...that whole settled science thing that explains the origins of the cosmos.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

I know quite well what it is. I also know it's not provable beyond a reasonable doubt.

Then please describe evolution in your own words.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Yeah... There is a ton of other stuff involved with evolution beyond natural selection: adaptation, survival of the fittest, extinction, diseases & immunities, biological instinct, climate and environmental factors, etc.

:lol:

What could she have possibly been talking about... I mean something other than intelligent design related.


If you have a point you should expound on it. Of course there is more to evolution than natural selection. There is gene flow, random mutations as DNA is replicated and so on. Or do you mean some supernatural force at work? If so, what positive empirical evidence can you cite for that one?

Natural selection simply means that changes in an organism are accumilated gradually as different traits result in different success rates for an organism in its environment. If it's not natural selection then its something supernatural and that is not science.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

I do too. I listen to that podcast all the time. Are you donating to make Penn evil?


Really? I heard him a few weeks back on Penn Gillette's podcast, he spoke with Neil Degrasse Tyson, Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss at an event I was at a few months ago, he frequently does interviews...and was on Dancing with the Stars this season/

Sounds like he has a pretty full plate lately.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

The Bible was written by other people :lamo
Aaaaaaand...your point is? I accept people chose to believe things and the bible is absolutely a faith based endeavor. I also believe in science and scientific exploration. The point is not that it is inappropriate to accept things on faith but rather it is foolsih to ridicule others when you do the same thing. And...BTW...what is YOUR faith based belief system on the origins of the cosmos? Are you a Banger? As you have no problem ridiculing others for their faith, surely you transcend faith and have a knowledge that explains the foundation of the universe....right?
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

My nieces made their own birthday cards for Bill Nye with construction paper and pop out animal designs. Their science teacher then mailed the.cards. He seems like a nice guy, so I think he would appreciate little kids thinking he's cool and like science. :)




Fist off, Bill Nye is f'n awesome. Secondly, he's been doing continual work in science education and science research since his show. He is completely relevant in the world of popular science.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Then please describe evolution in your own words.

Evolution is a scientific theory which states that organisms will physically change and adapt to better survive in their environment over time. This theory is intended to show why very similar animals in different areas of the world may have widely varied diets, physical traits, and may act differently.

Evolution is also part of a larger theory which suggests that human beings have not always been human but rather have evolved from a common ancestor with apes. This theory denies any connection to a divine power or any sort of intelligent design in nature.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

No, I'm several weeks backlogged.

I might donate if he gives Gilbert Gottfried a part...
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Evolution is a scientific theory which states that organisms will physically change and adapt to better survive in their environment over time. This theory is intended to show why very similar animals in different areas of the world may have widely varied diets, physical traits, and may act differently.

Evolution is also part of a larger theory which suggests that human beings have not always been human but rather have evolved from a common ancestor with apes. This theory denies any connection to a divine power or any sort of intelligent design in nature.

LOL. You know, for a guy who rejects evolution that's actually not bad, my only real objection being that the scientific theory doesn't go so far as to actively reject divine powers because the scientific methods can't take into consideration nonfalsifiable factors. So what's the problem then? We've already micro and macro evolution in action.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

It doesn't take much to show how foolish and deceitful the evolutionist are. Look at Bill Nye, a non-scientist who started on a kid's television show, teaching third-grade science projects.

Then why is Ken Ham so excited to debate him if he's so worthless? Ken is going to get his ass kicked, like he always does, because he's unable to produce any evidence to support his claims.

Talk about foolish.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

LOL. You know, for a guy who rejects evolution that's actually not bad, my only real objection being that the scientific theory doesn't go so far as to actively reject divine powers because the scientific methods can't take into consideration nonfalsifiable factors. So what's the problem then? We've already micro and macro evolution in action.

I never said I was for or against the theory of Evolution. What I have said is that I oppose any viewpoint which cannot be proven as the sole option unless it is done based on Faith instead of science.

Very few whom I've met deny That creatures evolve. What they reject is the idea that evolution was part of the original creation of the world. That is due to their Faith in an alternate theory.

It's the tie to the beginning if the world which makes all the difference.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

I never said I was for or against the theory of Evolution. What I have said is that I oppose any viewpoint which cannot be proven as the sole option unless it is done based on Faith instead of science.

Very few whom I've met deny That creatures evolve. What they reject is the idea that evolution was part of the original creation of the world. That is due to their Faith in an alternate theory.

It's the tie to the beginning if the world which makes all the difference.

Abiogenesis and evolution are different subjects.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

It doesn't take much to show how foolish and deceitful the evolutionist are. Look at Bill Nye, a non-scientist who started on a kid's television show, teaching third-grade science projects.

Welcome to Debate Politics.com. This forum is proudly brought to you as a product of science. And evolutionary science at that. All science is evolutionary...just like all living things.

Other than natural elements of earth...everything else that you experience....food, housing, communications, medicine, clothing, etc, etc, etc....SCIENCE!
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Abiogenesis and evolution are different subjects.

All too often Big Bang/beginning of the world, abiogenesis, and evolution are taught either together or as extensions of each other. They are not properly separated as topics and therefore become lumped together conceptually. It's really the first two theories the religious people decry. Evolution gets tied in with it.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

bill_nye.jpg

...........
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

All too often Big Bang/beginning of the world, abiogenesis, and evolution are taught either together or as extensions of each other. They are not properly separated as topics and therefore become lumped together conceptually. It's really the first two theories the religious people decry. Evolution gets tied in with it.

Informally, sure, it's natural when talking about the evolution of the species to also want to talk about the origin of the species. Formally and scientifically, they're different fields, every bit as different as abiogenesis is from the Big Bang.
 
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Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Informally, sure, it's natural when talking about the evolution of the species to also want to talk about the origin of the species. Formally and scientifically, they're different fields, every bit as different as abiogenesis is from the Big Bang.

I won't disagree with any of that. Unfortunately most 15 year olds are not capable of making those differentiations.

IF these scientific theories (big bang and abiogenesis) could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt It would be one thing but considering that they cannot be proven I find it to be rather impolite that they are taught as if no other option is possible.

That's what most religious people have am issue with.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

I won't disagree with any of that. Unfortunately most 15 year olds are not capable of making those differentiations.

I don't agree. When I was in high school being able to differentiate those three concepts was not difficult. However, if you do think 15 year olds are confused now, just wait til you start teaching them creationism and evolution as equally valid scientific theories.

IF these scientific theories (big bang and abiogenesis) could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt It would be one thing but considering that they cannot be proven I find it to be rather impolite that they are taught as if no other option is possible.

Abiogenesis is an extremely broad theory with multiple explanations for it, and as yet there is no single consensus on which one (if any) it might be. Some successful experiments have been conducted in a lab replicating the environmental conditions of the earth from when abiogenesis is thought to have begun, but to my knowledge that's the extent of it. The details of the big bang are also not settled, but it is known that the universe expanded from a single point -- that much is settled.

That's what most religious people have am issue with.

Religious people have an issue with matters of science they believe threaten their faith. That's not my problem and I can't help them with that.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Informally, sure, it's natural when talking about the evolution of the species to also want to talk about the origin of the species. Formally and scientifically, they're different fields, every bit as different as abiogenesis is from the Big Bang.

except that we do know how evolution works (in general) but we have no idea how live was created on earth. Most often biology will not talk about that side of the issue (where I live) but only talked about the here and now of biology and how we as human got where we have through evolution.

If someone wants to discuss the origins of how life started here on earth they should do so in religious studies and not in scientific studies.
 
Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

1)You don't know what evolution is so you're not qualified to say where evolution is or isn't proven.

I know quite well what it is. I also know it's not provable beyond a reasonable doubt.

Then you don't know anything about it.

There are many scientific theories that we may have reasonable doubt about. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming. There really is no doubt among biologists whatsoever. The success of molecular Biology removes ALL doubt about Evolution.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

except that we do know how evolution works (in general) but we have no idea how live was created on earth. Most often biology will not talk about that side of the issue (where I live) but only talked about the here and now of biology and how we as human got where we have through evolution.

If someone wants to discuss the origins of how life started here on earth they should do so in religious studies and not in scientific studies.

There are competing scientific theories with scientific evidence.
There are several competing religious theories without scientific evidence.
The key word is 'scientific'. If the evidence for a religion's theory is not based in science then the various religious creation theories has no business being taught in a science classroom. If the evidence is only religious in nature, then the theories have no business being taught in public schools.

Many christians seem to think they are the only option out there. If one faith is allowed into schools, all faiths have to be allowed. Faced with competing faiths, are christians willing to allow other religious theories to be taught along side their own in public schools? And let their children decide which religious creation theory to accept? It would be fun to watch that screamfest aka debate!

Gary Christenot said:
I was prompted to write and comment after reading the story on the New Jersey football coach that resigned because he was prohibited from leading his team in pre-game prayers.

Let me start by saying I am an evangelical Christian and have pretty hard-core beliefs about the rights of individuals, particularly students, to express their faith, to include religious themes in their school work, to perform Christian-themed music and dramas during school talent events, etc. If a school administrator had ever tried to stop one of my kids from carrying a Bible, participating in voluntary prayer, or openly discussing their faith with another student, I would have sued him back in to the Stone Age.

You might be surprised then to learn that I am adamantly opposed to teachers and other school officials leading students in prayer or the conduct of prayer rituals, even by students, at officially sanctioned events. Why would I take a position that is seemingly so at odds with my core beliefs?

Throughout the vast majority of the United States, most religious practices and beliefs are rooted in a traditional Judeo-Christian belief system. As such, prayers conducted before a football game or at a graduation ceremony, even if so bland and non-proselytizing as to be meaningless, are generally offered in the context of the traditional Jehovah God of the Old and New Testament. However, that is not the case in all corners of our nation.

I had the privilege of serving our nation’s Air Force while assigned to Hickam Air Force Base on the beautiful island of Oahu in the beautiful state of Hawaii. Because of the arrangement of military housing in that location, my family and I actually lived not at Hickam near the Honolulu metropolitan area, but at Wheeler Air Force Base in the central part of the island just out side of the small pineapple-farming town of Wahiawa. In Wahiawa we found a small Baptist church that met our family’s needs. However, Christians and others from various Judeo-Christian traditions were in the very distinct minority in this little village that was populated predominantly by people of Japanese and Chinese ancestry. Rather than a church on every corner, as is common in the continental 48 states, Wahiawa had a Shinto or Buddhist shrine on every corner.

Because we worked in the youth department of our church and taught teenage Sunday School classes, we were anxious to be involved in the lives of the students we worked with. So we were quite excited to be able to attend our first football game at Wahiawa High School. Upon our arrival at the stadium it seemed like so many other high school athletic events we had been to in many other places. The teams were warming up, the band was gathering, the ROTC was preparing to raise the colors – a pretty typical fall ritual.

Coming from a fairly traditional Southern upbringing, I was not at all initially surprised when a voice came over the PA and asked everyone to rise for the invocation. I had been through this same ritual at many other high-school events and thought nothing of it, so to our feet my wife and I stood, bowed our heads, and prepared to partake of the prayer. But to our extreme dismay, the clergyman who took the microphone and began to pray was not a Protestant minister or a Catholic priest, but a Buddhist priest who proceeded to offer up prayers and intonations to god-head figures that our tradition held to be pagan.

We were frozen in shock and incredulity! What to do? To continue to stand and observe this prayer would represent a betrayal of our own faith and imply the honoring of a pagan deity that was anathema to our beliefs. To sit would be an act of extreme rudeness and disrespect in the eyes of our Japanese hosts and neighbors, who value above all other things deference and respect in their social interactions. I am sorry to say that in the confusion of the moment we chose the easier path and elected to continue to stand in silence so as not to create a scene or ill will among those who were seated nearby.

[...]

Gary Christenot

Why I’m against pre-game prayers
 
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Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

I don't agree. When I was in high school being able to differentiate those three concepts was not difficult. However, if you do think 15 year olds are confused now, just wait til you start teaching them creationism and evolution as equally valid scientific theories.

I don't believe most high school students have the same level of intellect or understanding that even I had in the early 1990. I wouldn't teach creation in schools. What I would do us to teach the scientific theories on the beginning of the world as theories instead if as the only acceptable option in the discussion.

Abiogenesis is an extremely broad theory with multiple explanations for it, and as yet there is no single consensus on which one (if any) it might be. Some successful experiments have been conducted in a lab replicating the environmental conditions of the earth from when abiogenesis is thought to have begun, but to my knowledge that's the extent of it. The details of the big bang are also not settled, but it is known that the universe expanded from a single point -- that much is settled.

The problem is that you will not generally hear those qualifiers in a high school biology or earth science class.

Religious people have an issue with matters of science they believe threaten their faith. That's not my problem and I can't help them with that.

True. However you (or at least the school departments) can choose not to wave a red flag in front of the bull by suggesting there are no alternatives.
 
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