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Thread: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164, 712]

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Oh great. Tell me then, are you saying its not possible?
    Deflection isn't an answer, it's giving up. Giving up doesn't earn you smarmy. Want to be smarmy about it, you've got to do it yourself.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    These debates are always pointless. There is always some proponent of metaphysics; a convenient method of inventing any being you want, ascribing any attributes to that being you want, then using those attributes to "establish" yet another attribute ultimately to build a narrative unsupported by any actual facts or evidence that an eternal deity not only exists but created the universe. Then, after declaring this made-up-out-of-whole-cloth narrative immune to criticism or refutation; the theist demands objective empirical evidence to support the theory of a self-extant universe. There just isn't any point in debating someone who refuses to play by the same rules.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    [QUOTE=Smeagol;1062748205]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    /QUOTE]


    Oh great. Tell me then, are you saying its not possible?
    I'm warning you against being smarmy about a sophisticated topic that is his professional area of expertise. As for the theory it is the wrong question. The real question is whether or not given the evidence this is a likely answer, and whether or not based on our understanding and evidence it is true. On both counts the answer is no. I can only presume that this argument is sourced from Gerald Schroeder the Orthodox Jewish physicist who has made a living off popularizing this perspective and written three books in which this figures prominently.

    The argument is premised on injecting a supernatural element which complicates an already explainable natural event. It is intellectually equivalent to saying God (even though he vehemently denies this) created the Universe with the appearance of age but was actually created in the 6,000-8,000 year timeframe. Is this possible? Sure. But only if God exists, which in turn begs some other pointed questions. Is it something we can determine given the evidence at our disposal? Absolutely not. Is there a natural explanation that requires no supernatural injection? Yes.

    More specifically the claim usually runs something like: One day corresponds to the creation of the galactic disk (of the Milky Way) some 15-16 billion years ago, day two corresponds to the appearance of water on Earth some 3-7 billion years ago, day three corresponds to atmospheric development some 1.5-3 billion years ago, day four is the appearance of multicellular organisms 750 mya-1.5 billion years ago, day five is that interlude to the first extinction 250mya-700mya, day six is that extinction to humans some 250mya-some biblically specific number like 6,000 when modern humans are supposed to have appeared (this is wrong), and of course day seven the day of rest. This of course is measured from the "wave frequency of the cosmic microwave background radiation"

    What are the problems with this? Primarily that it is unfalsifiable and completely unnecessary injection meant to contort Genesis into scientific accuracy. More specific problems revolve around glaring inconsistencies with the source material (Genesis) and his theory which I'd have to dig up his book again to expound upon. Though there are quite a few rather detailed reviews and essays circling around that have done a better job of debunking those claims than I probably could.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    I used to work with somebody, she was really nice, and she raised her son in very sheltered, religious environment. He was home schooled, she took him to the Creation Museum, and he was in the Boy Scouts. Other than Boy Scouts and church, they lived on a farm and he didn't know many other people.

    I honestly felt kind of sad for him. I don't think it's a very good thing to raise a child that sheltered. At some point, he has to go out in the world and he isn't going to know how to handle situations.

    I'm glad I was raised in a city and grew up with a lot of diversity. it takes a lot to shock me, and I am hardly naive.

    I see gay people making out in public, and it's no big deal. I've met people who think they're vampires, no big deal. I've seen people do drugs, sell drugs, and carry illegal firearms on their person. And I am not a **** up or a druggie. I just can't imagine how kid like him would handle those situations once turned lose on the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Wow. Is that how you approach science?

    I've never been to the moon, but I can tell you lots of things about it, I've never been to the Crab Nebula either, etc.

    So, should we just not venture to learn about the formation of earth because we weren't there?

    Teaching kids in a public school about creationism is wrong, makes them ignorant, and should not be allowed with tax payer money. If you want to make kids ignorant, do it in your churches. Unless, of course the tax exempt churches will accept a scientist coming and lecturing to their flock about the truth of evolution...

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by GJ Flash View Post
    Unless you (or Bill) were here when the Earth was created, the circumstances of it's creation are neither fact nor observable.
    ... You do realize that telescopes allow us to observe planets and celestial bodies in creation? We've actually progressed to the point where we can literally look back in time.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I think you are highly misinformed about who Ken Ham is and what is displayed in the creationist museum. It is a young earth creationist museum, meaning they try to push that the earth is only 6,000 years old.

    A few goodies:
    - Humans and dinosaurs lived together a few thousand years ago, and humans kept some as pets.
    - The grand canyon was carved in a matter of weeks by Noah's flood.

    Unless your beliefs line up with stuff like that, I would avoid sticking up for him in debates.

    Holy ****

    somebody please tell me they taking that crap out! Children having Pet dinosaurs

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    . I just can't imagine how kid like him would handle those situations once turned lose on the world.
    They don't. They stay in the same midwest town where they grew up for the rest of their lives.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Yeah, well, some people say that there's no evidence Jesus existed. I would be funny to see him prove those people wrong. For some reason I suspect his calibration of what evidence is, would radically change all the sudden

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Then there is virtually no such thing as fact. We don't know that the American Revolution happened all we have are testimonials, archaeological evidence, and man made (therefore falsifiable) histories. It is therefore not a 'fact' that the American Revolution occurred.

    Insisting on such practical absolutes for words like 'fact' is a weak shield for evading reality.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    They don't. They stay in the same midwest town where they grew up for the rest of their lives.
    He can't live with his mommy forever. He he will eventually need to get a job, or go to college. At some point he will need to travel into the real world, and I'm not sure he's going to be safe

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    He can't live with his mommy forever. He he will eventually need to get a job, or go to college. At some point he will need to travel into the real world, and I'm not sure he's going to be safe
    There is definitely some truth in that, but it's also really easy to successfully shelter yourself. The worse possibility in my opinion is having business and cultural exposure drastically reduced. It's sad. I've had many assumptions turned on their head by going to foreign countries and experiencing them first hand, and I'm richer for it.

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