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Thread: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164, 712]

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I'm not reinterpreting Genesis, I have never said that the text is 100% factual, I am simply pointing out that statements like "the flood didn't happen" are just as closed minded as people here claim Christians are. A massive flood DID happen in that region and it would have appeared to anyone in that basin at the time that the whole world was gone.
    And there is evidence the flood story predates Genesis Noah's Ark Was Round, Based On 4,000-Year-Old Mesopotamian Instructions That Are 'Mathematically Accurate' - International Science Times

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I'm not reinterpreting Genesis, I have never said that the text is 100% factual, I am simply pointing out that statements like "the flood didn't happen" are just as closed minded as people here claim Christians are. A massive flood DID happen in that region and it would have appeared to anyone in that basin at the time that the whole world was gone.
    The flood, as clearly described in the Bible, did not happen. People have been trying to change the meaning of the flood in Genesis to match a number of local floods, in hopes of making it mean something, but honestly, the whole purpose of the flood is nullified if it's just a local flood. Why kill the wicked people in a tiny area when people from surrounding areas who are just as evil can walk in immediately after the flood?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The problem with creationism is what happens when you ask a question that you don't know the answer to. Creationists say "well the Bible says .... " and that's it. There's no reason for further inquiry. Look at the sun, the Bible says it goes around the Earth; why look further? The Bible says that God created all the animals. Why look any deeper?
    Again, this is flatly false. Human history is filled with people who believed in God and still managed to study how the universe works and dri9ve human understanding forward. Continually stating ignorant gross generalizations of large groups of people only serves to display your own intellectual blindfold.

    The subjects are different, but the idea is the same. Creationism teaches kids to stop asking why when they ask a question no one can answer.
    No it doesn't.

    Science says look further.
    Creationism doesn't say stop studying science no matter how much you seem to want it to. Creationism really only attempts to answer "Why" and says nothing of "How". The only people that really have a problem with Creationism or Science are those who are desperate to use religion or science to discredit the other. They are both misguided and have their own set of blind spots.

    In all honesty the group I have seen to have more willingness to abandon scientific principles than any other today are those who wish to use science to achieve political goals.
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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Does anyone assert that the great flood happened in 2000 BC?
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Does anyone assert that the great flood happened in 2000 BC?
    I'm sure some where someone does. Just like people assert the entire world was flooded.

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The flood, as clearly described in the Bible, did not happen. People have been trying to change the meaning of the flood in Genesis to match a number of local floods, in hopes of making it mean something, but honestly, the whole purpose of the flood is nullified if it's just a local flood. Why kill the wicked people in a tiny area when people from surrounding areas who are just as evil can walk in immediately after the flood?
    Having never argued that the Bible is 100% factual I am not sure why so many people insist on arguing things I did not say.

    I would like to point out, though that the term used for "Earth" in the original text of Genesis is "eres" which actually can mean everything from the entire planet, to all dry land, to a geographical region, to dirt. So essentially your argument depends on the meaning intended by the original author. At best you can argue that the common interpretation of Genesis is wrong.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Again, this is flatly false. Human history is filled with people who believed in God and still managed to study how the universe works and dri9ve human understanding forward. Continually stating ignorant gross generalizations of large groups of people only serves to display your own intellectual blindfold.



    No it doesn't.



    Creationism doesn't say stop studying science no matter how much you seem to want it to. Creationism really only attempts to answer "Why" and says nothing of "How". The only people that really have a problem with Creationism or Science are those who are desperate to use religion or science to discredit the other. They are both misguided and have their own set of blind spots.

    In all honesty the group I have seen to have more willingness to abandon scientific principles than any other today are those who wish to use science to achieve political goals.
    Why do you equate a belief in God with creationism?

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I'm guessing you missed the bit about the taxonomy and carbon dating of the fossils on the sea bed to determine the geological history of the Black Sea, and the discovery that the sea was once a smaller fresh water lake, lending credence to the theory that the great flood actually did happen? You probably also missed the fact that the study found evidence of ancient buildings 95m under water?

    None of this would have been found had we chosen to write off Genesis as entirely mythical.



    I question the ability of someone to think clearly who fails to read a whole article before passing judgement on it.
    No one is arguing that Genesis is entirely a fantasy, all tribal myths generally have some sort of historical basis. Given the number of ancient middle eastern cultures that have a tribal myth about a flood, more than likely one did occur. It certainly was not a worldwide flood where all animals were loaded upon a great Ark though. Floods have happened throughout history, this one is no different.
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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I'm guessing you missed the bit about the taxonomy and carbon dating of the fossils on the sea bed to determine the geological history of the Black Sea, and the discovery that the sea was once a smaller fresh water lake, lending credence to the theory that the great flood actually did happen? You probably also missed the fact that the study found evidence of ancient buildings 95m under water?

    None of this would have been found had we chosen to write off Genesis as entirely mythical.



    I question the ability of someone to think clearly who fails to read a whole article before passing judgement on it.
    It was clearly not a global flood, which science disproves quite nicely. There's no room for interpretation here, Genesis says it was a global flood. And yes, actually, people would have figured out that the Black Sea flooded thousands of years ago even without Genesis.

    A different quote from genesis uses a phrase that translates to "upon the face of all the earth," much more clearly indicating a global flood.

    "upon the face of all the earth" Ìal-penê kol-haÉares (Genesis 7:3; 8:9)

    A later part says something about "all of existence" being destroyed, which seems pretty clear.

    At least, according to these folks, which Answers in Genesis linked me to. I'm obviously not a biblical scholar.
    http://www.grisda.org/origins/22058.htm
    Last edited by Deuce; 02-05-14 at 07:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    The best part of this entire ordeal is that the atheist evolutionists are getting completely wrapped around the axle about this. The debate isn't even a blip on my radar.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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