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Thread: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164, 712]

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    In almost all of my exposure to YEC's I have consistently encountered a timeline based for the most part on the Ussher chronology ~6000 years ago or 4000 BCE.
    Which is, incidentally, around the time when writing (and thus record keeping) was invented. Surprise surprise.

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    Your time frame is off. The earliest known civilizations have been traced to southern Africa 20,000 plus years ago.
    Do you have documentation on that civilization? My understanding is that civilization sprung from the Neolithic Revolution that began 12,000 years ago.
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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Except it is the United States who's likely to be energy prosperous, have a colony on the Moon and significant orbital infrastructure, and on the cutting edge of scientific advances in 2050. In their rush for self-flagellation people are quick to ignore the fact that despite our creationists we are home to the largest and most sophisticated technology base with the greatest scientific institutions on the planet. I'm all for criticizing dim world views but I can't stand masochism.
    A decade ago you were right, now that's not so clear cut. It used to be that papers written at foreign universities were generally of much lesser quality than those written at US institutions. The gap has shrunk considerably, if it exists at all.

    The vast majority of graduate students in science and engineering fields in US universities are foreign born. Many of them return home upon graduation. The export of expertise has real effects. For example, the latest DARPA Robotics Challenge was won by Shaft, a Japanese company (and recently purchased by Google).

    We are where we are now because of the effort made to push Science and Technology to win the Space Race. Because of that, we invented the transistor, microchip, and were in a position to lead and benefit from the digital revolution. All of it traces back to government investments in education and basic research; something we have since cut back on dramatically.

    Read this chart, then ask yourself... why exactly would you expect these US students to lead anything?

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    Your time frame is off. The earliest known civilizations have been traced to southern Africa 20,000 plus years ago.
    It dawned on me that you were probably talking about this?

    Other than the headline, there is nothing there really to describe what is commonly referred to as civilization. It's certainly what would be considered a precursor to civilization, though.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 02-05-14 at 03:36 PM.
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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Do you have documentation on that civilization? My understanding is that civilization sprung from the Neolithic Revolution that began 12,000 years ago.
    http://http://www.livescience.com/21...ge-humans.html
    http://http://www.sciencedaily.com/r...0730155049.htm
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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    The point is that it doesn't matter what the current creationist rationalization is. What matters is how you know what you know. Do you start off knowing all the answers already because they were in a book, or do you know because of what you can measure.

    What matters is what happens when a child asks "Why?". Do you teach them that it's the way God made it or do you continue to explain why until you reach the limit of human understanding? The real problem with Creationism is that it stifles curiosity and promotes intellectual laziness. I can't prove it but it has to be true becomes a valid way of thinking.
    Science doesn't answer "why".
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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Science doesn't answer "why".
    Religion is supposed to, correct? The problem with that is the "why" varies depending on the brand of religion bought by the consumer.
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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Science doesn't answer "why".
    Exactly! Whenever science answers one question, it asks many more.

    Creationism answers a question once.. and that's satisfactory.

    A child asks a parent about a rainbow. A scientifically literate parent will explain about how sunlight is refracted through water molecules in the atmosphere. Different wavelengths of light are refracted at different angles, causing a prismatic effect. The child can go outside and use a garden hose and make their own rainbow. Then the child can explore other effects of refraction. What if there were two suns? what would rainbows look like?

    A creationist parent will tell the story of Noah, and that a rainbow is a promise that God will never flood the earth again. There's no investigation. There's no need to ask why. All the answers are provided for you.

    This is the fundamental danger of teaching kids creationism as science. You're telling them that it's okay to stop thinking. In fact, the RIGHT think to do is to listen to what you're told and believe that. Don't think for yourself, it's dangerous.

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    You start with an unshakable idea, the bible is 100% true.
    There's a lot of us who don't start whith that idea, myself included.

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Exactly! Whenever science answers one question, it asks many more.
    It doesn't matter, science is not meant to answer the "Why?" question in the first place. Science answers "How?"

    Creationism answers a question once.. and that's satisfactory.
    As I said, using the Bible to explain science is as misguided as using science to explain God. Both are geared to answering entirely different questions than the other.


    A child asks a parent about a rainbow. A scientifically literate parent will explain about how sunlight is refracted through water molecules in the atmosphere. Different wavelengths of light are refracted at different angles, causing a prismatic effect. The child can go outside and use a garden hose and make their own rainbow. Then the child can explore other effects of refraction. What if there were two suns? what would rainbows look like?
    And that scientifically literate person can also be religious.

    A creationist parent will tell the story of Noah, and that a rainbow is a promise that God will never flood the earth again. There's no investigation. There's no need to ask why. All the answers are provided for you.
    If you are going to attack creationism at least do your side the service of sticking to arguments that creationists actually make. Can you even provide evidence of a creationist that denies the physics of light and prisms? Making crap up like this only hurts your argument in the long run.

    This is the fundamental danger of teaching kids creationism as science. You're telling them that it's okay to stop thinking. In fact, the RIGHT think to do is to listen to what you're told and believe that. Don't think for yourself, it's dangerous.
    Would you extend this rationale to anyone who argues that "the science is settled"?
    Last edited by jmotivator; 02-05-14 at 04:02 PM.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

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