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Thread: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164, 712]

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I had to look Gish Gallop up.
    Whereas I was around when he started using the thing. Geez, I'm old.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    I have proof!!!!

    Attachment 67159422
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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Whereas I was around when he started using the thing. Geez, I'm old.
    The Gish Gallop tactic can best be summed up as taking attention off of creationism as fast as possible. The idea being that so long as doubt is cast on evolution then, in the end, creationism must be seen as more (or at least equally) valid. If that's how the Nye/Ham debate goes then frankly I'm not interested.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    The Gish Gallop tactic can best be summed up as taking attention off of creationism as fast as possible. The idea being that so long as doubt is cast on evolution then, in the end, creationism must be seen as more (or at least equally) valid. If that's how the Nye/Ham debate goes then frankly I'm not interested.
    That's really one of the problems. Creationists have no way to actually defend creationism, they can't show that it happened, they can't prove anything, they have no evidence, all they can do is try to make the scientist look foolish and claim victory, even though they did nothing whatsoever to earn it.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by smb View Post
    Very similar but not the same thing. Before you go off on definition 3 I would caution you that it does not specify the validity of evidence just that evidence exists. You can believe in creationism based on the evidence of the Bible but that does not make it observable fact.

    Belief

    1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
    2: something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
    3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

    Faith

    1a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
    2a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
    3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
    Lol @ second sentence.
    I never said the evidence was necessarily valid.
    Belief that something is true has some basis for it. Whether the basis is actually correct is another matter.
    Faith is believing something to be true with weak or no evidence or in the face of contradictory evidence.
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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by RogueWarrior View Post
    Lol @ second sentence.
    I never said the evidence was necessarily valid.
    Belief that something is true has some basis for it. Whether the basis is actually correct is another matter.
    Faith is believing something to be true with weak or no evidence or in the face of contradictory evidence.
    That is not true. Belief does not have to have any supporting evidence to be belief. You are too closely parsing words. A belief can be based on some sort of evidence and it also can be based on nothing but feeling as the definition states.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by GJ Flash View Post
    My belief system is a mix of faith and fact. I have been a man of faith my entire life. I have studied or followed just about every religion on Earth, but my "major" has been Christianity. I have never met anyone who thought the Earth was only 6,000 years old. Maybe I travel in different circles than some.

    Your god, science, told me that avocados are full of bad fat that will kill me quickly. Then your god said oops, never mind, I made a mistake.
    Now your god says that we will all die in a fire of global warming. Some of your god's apostles got trapped in a bunch of ice last month that was supposed to be melted by now. Just saying.

    My point is, no one can say with certain factual evidence exactly how old the Earth is. No one was there to observe it. We can estimate, yes, but we can't name a number and call it fact, because facts change. Like avocado "facts". And global warming "facts".
    We know the age of the earth through radiometric dating.

    See: Age of the Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is how religion works compared to how science works:

    Religion - Tribal stories / myths are passed down over hundreds of years are eventually recorded by Jewish Scribes around 500 BC or so (the Pentateuch). Several other books are written by various authors between 500 BC and 100 BC or so (the rest of the Old Testament). Various other stories and letters written by several different authors are then recorded between 50 AD and 150 AD. These are then collected and canonized in what we call the New Testament today. This collection of books we call the Bible represents the world views, morality, oral histories, and second hand biographies of various Jewish tribes from about 2000 BC until 100 AD or so. Some 2000 years later strict adherents to that religion reject out of hand any notion that contradicts the views of a people that lived over 2000 years ago.

    Science - Doctors determine in the mid 20th century that dietary fats lead to arteriosclerosis and thus heart disease. Doctors then start to recommend low fat diets in order to prevent heart disease and early death. Research is continuously done to determine how dietary fats result in arteriosclerosis, and if all fats results in it, or just some. As a result of this continual research and its findings, it is eventually determined that some fats are actually good for you while others like trans fat are particularly bad for you. As a result they stop recommending a low fat diet and instead recommend a more balanced diet that includes good fats like what you find in nuts, avocados, and cold water fishes.

    If science worked like religion then the first doctor that found fats resulted in arteriosclerosis would be considered a prophet of God, and any doctor that later disputed whether all fats were bad for you or just some of them would be called a heretic.
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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by GJ Flash View Post
    My belief system is a mix of faith and fact. I have been a man of faith my entire life. I have studied or followed just about every religion on Earth, but my "major" has been Christianity. I have never met anyone who thought the Earth was only 6,000 years old. Maybe I travel in different circles than some.

    Your god, science, told me that avocados are full of bad fat that will kill me quickly. Then your god said oops, never mind, I made a mistake.
    Now your god says that we will all die in a fire of global warming. Some of your god's apostles got trapped in a bunch of ice last month that was supposed to be melted by now. Just saying.

    My point is, no one can say with certain factual evidence exactly how old the Earth is. No one was there to observe it. We can estimate, yes, but we can't name a number and call it fact, because facts change. Like avocado "facts". And global warming "facts".
    The difference is that science, when confronted with evidence that the avocado idea was wrong, will change. Nobody rewrote the bible when it was discovered that the earth is round.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by GJ Flash View Post
    And bigot is about the nicest word I'd use to describe Bill Nye.
    Bill Nye a bigot? I think people have really forgotten what that word means.
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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I think you are highly misinformed about who Ken Ham is and what is displayed in the creationist museum. It is a young earth creationist museum, meaning they try to push that the earth is only 6,000 years old.

    A few goodies:
    - Humans and dinosaurs lived together a few thousand years ago, and humans kept some as pets.
    - The grand canyon was carved in a matter of weeks by Noah's flood.

    Unless your beliefs line up with stuff like that, I would avoid sticking up for him in debates.

    I believed and in fact I'm absolutely convencied God created everything that exists and I do not believe the earth is 6000 years old except possibly from a different perspective. I understand this might be a difficult concept to grasp by people who do not understand the science of time dilation. Time Dilation | Einstein&#39;s Relativity - YouTube

    Meanwhile 2,000 years before Einstein, the Bible said. 2 Peter 3:8
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