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Thread: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164, 712]

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Sorry, I was speaking to those of us with at least a basic understanding of evolution. If you believe that evolution is simply natural selection, I invite you to find and read a few general overviews that will explain it to you much better than I have time to do.
    You are still unable to explain to us what scientists have missed that you haven't.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You are still unable to explain to us what scientists have missed that you haven't.
    To which scientists are you referring? Don't tell me that you actually believe that those two "fundamental laws of biology" are well known and generally accepted among biologists?

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    You're playing semantics and dodging as usual. And you're not a science nerd, at least admit that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    To which scientists are you referring? Don't tell me that you actually believe that those two "fundamental laws of biology" are well known and generally accepted among biologists?

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    You're playing semantics and dodging as usual. And you're not a science nerd, at least admit that.
    If science nerds are the sort of people that read an absurd quote on a debate forum concerning a subject they pretend to know a lot about and assume that because it matches their naive view that it must be accepted by the scientific community as a whole or (worse) accepted as a scientific law - a prospect that would even amuse the author... then I fully admit to not being a science nerd.

    [BTW, it comes from a short book in which a scientist attempts to convince a fictional priest that science and religion can and should work together to preserve the biodiversity of our planet - ahh, if only it were that easy to define fundamental laws of science]

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    We are talking about ALL scientists, Taylor. Remember we are discussing your compliant that nobody seems to understand that evolution involves more than just natural selection?

    So what have ALL scientists, living and dead, missed about evolution and biology?



    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    To which scientists are you referring? Don't tell me that you actually believe that those two "fundamental laws of biology" are well known and generally accepted among biologists?

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    The attitude you have for people who appreciate science has always seemed disparaging and judgmental. I have always seen you as a creationist, and I don't understand why you are timid to represent it. I would have more respect if you did rather than playing dodge ball, strawman, and semantics.

    We already think you're complaining about people ignoring the role of God in evolution. Why not just say it?

    You won't get bashed by every science nerd in here for believing in God. Christian bashers are assholes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    If science nerds are the sort of people that read an absurd quote on a debate forum concerning a subject they pretend to know a lot about and assume that because it matches their naive view that it must be accepted by the scientific community as a whole or (worse) accepted as a scientific law - a prospect that would even amuse the author... then I fully admit to not being a science nerd.

    [BTW, it comes from a short book in which a scientist attempts to convince a fictional priest that science and religion can and should work together to preserve the biodiversity of our planet - ahh, if only it were that easy to define fundamental laws of science]

  7. #257
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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Why does gravity act the way it is and not in other ways? Uncertainty and vacuum fluctuations certainly have been theorized to be the cause of the Big Bang, but it's just a theory at this point.
    Indeed, and that's all we have at this point of our scientific knowledge and understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Vacuum energy does arise from various dynamics, not all well understood. But that doesn't mean that the absence of particles from a volume (which is what a vacuum would be) would innately have that energy.
    As long as the unc. principle is true, in our Universe it does. (so far we haven't seen any other Universes/examples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Vacuum energy is the background energy of the universe essentially. It's not born of vacuum, but permeates it all. And if there were multiple universes, and those universes had different fundamental constants then it is quite conceivable that they would measure a different vacuum energy since the physical processes that contribute to the vacuum energy could also be slightly different.
    Vacuum energy is a property of the vacuum that is "caused" by the unc. principle which is as far as we understand is universally true (in our Universe), hence all my previous points stand;
    a. The vacuum isn't "nothing" as you defined it previously.
    b. Unfortunately, the mechanism to why exactly it has energy can not be simply answered with "Because of the unc. principle and it always has" - mostly because we do not fully understand this mechanism till this day.
    c. The following creationist questions would be "Where it came from? (i.e the unc. principle) and "Why it acts the way it is and not in other ways?"

    ...and indeed, other Universes may have other unc. principles, other vacuum properties (some time ago, I read somewhere that there is even a theoretical possibility of a solid vacuum), other constants, etc.
    However, in our Universe vacuum is what it is, and it isn't "nothing".

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The Gods Themselves by Asimov sort of addresses that. Well perhaps not vacuum energy, but a multiverse where within each universe the fundamental constants were slightly different.
    Sorry, didn't read it.

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Why did you demand proof of evolution if you never had any intention of accepting it from the very start?
    I never demanded proof. I simple said that Ham should do so in thus debate and that no theory which cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt should be allowed to be taught as facts.

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I never demanded proof. I simple said that Ham should do so in thus debate and that no theory which cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt should be allowed to be taught as facts.
    Fallacy.

    Argument from ignorance

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    Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I never demanded proof. I simple said that Ham should do so in thus debate and that no theory which cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt should be allowed to be taught as facts.
    Then he would appear as ignorant in the debate as many do here. Also, that's a pretty blatantly obvious and clumsy attempt to tie up Bill Nye so he (Ham) won't have to defend his own position at all. We've all seen that type of debate millions of times already.

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