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Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164, 712]

Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Jerry said:
The reason you haven't pointed out that many of the dates in the 'theory' I posted are wrong, is that you aren't interested in the scientific process and logical deduction. You're going to bash religion no matter what, and you aren't even very good at it....just like this creationist 'debating' Mr. Nye.
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I ask you for proof. You give none. Just your book of fables.

No science, no data, no testing, no retesting, no predictions, no theories, just a simplistic, all encompassing explanation that some supernatural events (that defy physics, can't be repeated, can't be shown, and there is no empirical evidence to show that it ever happened) accounts for the complexity of life on earth and the formation of the universe.

I have science and data and fossils and proof and studies and repeatable experiments and a few hundred years of the scientific method on my side.

All you have is "....then a miracle happened"
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

beefheart said:
Tell that to Ken Ham.
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Why would I waist my time?

beefheart said:
He still believes that somehow every animal magically found its way to the Ark....
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It's the Epic of Gilgamesh. There was a rich sea merchant who knew how to read weather, forecasted a disaster, built a really big boat and put a bunch of animals on it. Every hunter knows how to attract different animals. There's no magic trick here, just a writer taking artistic license.
 
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Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Verax said:
How did this turn into "liberals are too stupid to understand the bible"?
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Duh...everyone that doesn't meet my conservative litmus test 100% is a godless commie that eats babies...
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

beefheart said:
I ask you for proof. You give none. Just your book of fables.

No science, no data, no testing, no retesting, no predictions, no theories, just a simplistic, all encompassing explanation that some supernatural events (that defy physics, can't be repeated, can't be shown, and there is no empirical evidence to show that it ever happened) accounts for the complexity of life on earth and the formation of the universe.

I have science and data and fossils and proof and studies and repeatable experiments and a few hundred years of the scientific method on my side.

All you have is "....then a miracle happened"
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Why would I try and prove a 'theory' which I knew was wrong when I posted it?
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Jerry said:
Why would I waist my time?


It's the Epic of Gilgamesh. There was a rich sea merchant who knew how to read weather, foretasted a disaster, built a really big boat and put a bunch of animals on it. Every hunter knows how to attract different animals. There's no magic trick here, just a writer taking artistic license.
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So you agree that the story is a fable?
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

beefheart said:
So you agree that the story is a fable?
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The flood? That's what an "epic" is, it's a legend, a fable, a story which might be based in a grain of truth but blown way out of proportion for entertainment or propagic value.

Basically there was some major geological **** going down and yeah there were big floods, tons of people died, and an rich guy made a big boat and brought a bunch of animals. But the flood wasn't global. The animals on the ark weren't all animals from allover the earth, they were local, maybe within a thousand miles or so. It was a traumatic event, and that shows in the story as the writer refers to the whole world being covered in water. That's not literal, that's the writer's point of view, because the writer probably never knew of anything outside the Mesopotamian area. People usually didn't back then.

There's no indication that the Epic of Gilgamesh was intended to be a literal technical account of an event. Something big did happen, but it wasn't a literal global flood.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Jetboogieman said:
I should have clarified what I meant by aggressive, I wasn't talking in a Bill O rielly sense aggressive but I think Bill should have been more wiling to say things like

"what you're saying is patently false"

Instead of

"that's an extraordinary claim"

Which he repeatedly did throughout the debate.

A global flood and the idea the world is 6000 years old is in every single way imaginable absolutely false and he should have been more assertive of that fact.
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There were others, such as, "You failed to answer my question," or "that is unconvincing," and "I find that implication troubling," (that last one stated after, if I recall correctly, his question that if humans die because of sin, then did that mean that all the animals died because of sin as well?)

What people are not appreciating about Bill Ny's performance tonight is that rather than exhaust himself in trying to correct Hamm's outrageous claims about what evolution and science entails, he actually stayed on the offensive the entire time by demonstrating that Creationism is completely incompatible with what we observe and know of the age of the planet. I found him to be very organized and he did not allow himself to be thrown off course.

...with the exception of that one terrible joke.
 
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Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

beefheart said:
So you agree that the story is a fable?
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The literalist version of the creation story you keep referring to, which is not the one I posted, is also false. it's not even a fable, it's false.

You post a pic about the sun being made on the 4th day, but the bible never says the sun was created on the 4th day. It says "let there be", not "God created".

The bible never says the earth is flat, either. Things like "the four corners of the world" are figures of speech we still use today. Referring to Earth's foundation....the Earth has a foundation, it's a solid iron core spinning fast generating a magnetic field. Saying man can't move the Earth from it's foundation is true, we can't remove the core nor can we change Earth's orbit around the sun.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Jerry said:
The flood? That's what an "epic" is, it's a legend, a fable, a story which might be based in a grain of truth but blown way out of proportion for entertainment or propagic value.

Basically there was some major geological **** going down and yeah there were big floods, tons of people died, and an rich guy made a big boat and brought a bunch of animals. But the flood wasn't global. The animals on the ark weren't all animals from allover the earth, they were local, maybe within a thousand miles or so. It was a traumatic event, and that shows in the story as the writer refers to the whole world being covered in water. That's not literal, that's the writer's point of view, because the writer probably never knew of anything outside the Mesopotamian area. People usually didn't back then.

There's no indication that the Epic of Gilgamesh was intended to be a literal technical account of an event. Something big did happen, but it wasn't a literal global flood.
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Ham literally believes that this happened, all over the earth, all landmasses covered in water, 4000 years ago. It is a great story, but there is no proof, all the animals on earth today did not descend from ark survivors 4000 years ago, to believe or even entertain that story is pure hogwash.

Here, this might put things in perspective:

circle.jpg
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

beefheart said:
Ham literally believes that this happened, all over the earth, all landmasses covered in water, 4000 years ago.
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Ham is an idiot.

YEC is rationalisation after-the-fact to validate an idea critical to their personal character reform. It's just validation. It's like talking to someone who's been through AA. Exactly the same.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Cardinal said:
The flood caused the splitup of the continents????!!!!
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You know, when he said that continental drift used to be a much faster process than it is today I couldn't help but laugh. I mean, does he really expect us to believe that the land mass we call South America went sailing by at 1 mile per year and no one noticed?
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Jerry said:
The literalist version of the creation story you keep referring to, which is not the one I posted, is also false. it's not even a fable, it's false.

You post a pic about the sun being made on the 4th day, but the bible never says the sun was created on the 4th day. It says "let there be", not "God created".

The bible never says the earth is flat, either. Things like "the four corners of the world" are figures of speech we still use today. Referring to Earth's foundation....the Earth has a foundation, it's a solid iron core spinning fast generating a magnetic field. Saying man can't move the Earth from it's foundation is true, we can't remove the core nor can we change Earth's orbit around the sun.
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Semantics...he said let there be light and there was light...so he didn't create light?

Bible says earth is flat, fixed on its foundations, the sun hurries back to where it rises, that the moon generates light...

It is a book of fables, not a science book. Ham takes it literally, says earth is 6000 years old, yet ignores the mounds of tested evidence to the contrary, that is ignorance to the point of complete, willful stupidity.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

beefheart said:
Semantics...
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Semantics: "the branch of linguistics and logic concerned with meaning. There are a number of branches and subbranches of semantics, including formal semantics, which studies the logical aspects of meaning, such as sense, reference, implication, and logical form, lexical semantics, which studies word meanings and word relations, and conceptual semantics, which studies the cognitive structure of meaning." [sup]link[/sup]

beefheart said:
....he said let there be light and there was light...so he didn't create light?
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"Let there be" is not de 'novo creation, no. The creation event is presented from the point of view from the planet's surface, not objective observation. When the story records "let there be light" on the first day, it's recording the removal of the dense cloud layer and allowing light to shine where it didn't before. When the story records God making something, it says outright "God created _____".

beefheart said:
Bible says earth is flat, fixed on its foundations, the sun hurries back to where it rises, that the moon generates light...

It is a book of fables, not a science book. Ham takes it literally, says earth is 6000 years old, yet ignores the mounds of tested evidence to the contrary, that is ignorance to the point of complete, willful stupidity.
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You aren't accurate or correct about anything you're citing here. You don't even know what the bible says, you're objecting to what you were told it says.

That's exactly what YEC does, believe what they're told to.

So I guess that's the end of our exchange :2wave:
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Napoleon said:
You know, when he said that continental drift used to be a much faster process than it is today I couldn't help but laugh. I mean, does he really expect us to believe that the land mass we call South America went sailing by at 1 mile per year and no one noticed?
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What would have to occur for the continents to move at even twice their present rate?

Not defending YEC here, just generally curious.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Jetboogieman said:
I should have clarified what I meant by aggressive, I wasn't talking in a Bill O rielly sense aggressive but I think Bill should have been more wiling to say things like

"what you're saying is patently false"

Instead of

"that's an extraordinary claim"

Which he repeatedly did throughout the debate.

A global flood and the idea the world is 6000 years old is in every single way imaginable absolutely false and he should have been more assertive of that fact.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. If I had been in the debate, I would have let go with a string of invectives pretty much every time Ham opened his mouth. What comes out of the mouths of creationists is complete and total %$^@$. They deserve to be called on it.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Jerry said:
Believe doesn't require proof, so don't ask for it.
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If you're not willing to prove your beliefs, don't get up on a stage and dance around like an idiot.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Jerry said:
You mean "yom", because this was written in Hebrew. Yom does not mean 24hrs. it means a finite period of time with a beginning and an end.

This is the beginning of why both YEC and people like yourself are wrong. As I said, you're both the same, equally ignorant of what things actually are, and here you're even making the same mistakes.
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Which is absolutely true, that's why the whole day-age nonsense is just that, nonsense. Since we know the universe was not created in 6 literal days, that also makes the YEC's beliefs complete nonsense. So now that we've established that the Biblical creation story is crap, now what?
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

beefheart said:
Which is why he is an idiot, for trying to have his dogmatic BS taught in public schools, and calling it "science"

I don't believe in evolution, I accept it as fact, based on the evidence.
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I'm watching the debate now. I think it's hilarious that Ham's argument relies very heavily on "You weren't there to see things evolve, so we can't verify it. That's why I believe the bible's account."

It's like... wait... what?
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Jetboogieman said:
Extreme right already losing it lol

Essay:Lessons from Ham-Nye Debate - Conservapedia



:lamo
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Nice. Also:

"Bill Nye would repeatedly say, "this is a great mystery," when presented with questions he could not answer, such as how did consciousness evolve from matter?"

That statement represents everything that is wrong with religious fundamentalists' comprehension of science.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

jesusridingdino_prehistoric.jpg
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Cardinal said:
Nice. Also:

"Bill Nye would repeatedly say, "this is a great mystery," when presented with questions he could not answer, such as how did consciousness evolve from matter?"

That statement represents everything that is wrong with religious fundamentalists' comprehension of science.
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Especially these guys, I often read Conservapedia for a laugh.

They're so nuts they think the bible is "too liberal"

Conservative Bible Project - Conservapedia

The Conservative Bible Project is a project utilizing the "best of the public" to render God's word into modern English without liberal translation distortions
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Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

Cardinal said:
I'm so glad I don't live in the bible belt.
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I just don't understand how anyone could live in such bubble.

To be honest, I watched yesterday mainly for entertainment value, but I also wanted to learn more, I wanted to challenge whether my absolute belief in evolution and my anti creationist view should be as fervent as it is.

Most people watched it, not to challenge themselves, but to reinforce their views.
 
Re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

I missed the last few minutes of the debate because my laptop decided to randomly update and it had to restart and everything. Did The Science Guy end the debate with "science rules"?
 
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