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Thread: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164, 712]

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    It would have been a much shorter post had you just said "you are right...I too have faith in theories"
    You're getting desperate. Faith requires no proof. I have seen the evidence brought by science. I have seen no evidence brought by religion. For you to claim that a person "has faith" in scientific theories is to imply that science provides no proof. This is extremely ignorant of just what it takes to create a scientific theory and the incredible amounts of evidence supporting different scientific theories. Again, you're ignoring that it's a zero sum game and it's easy to see why. We know where matter comes from. We know how humans evolved. It's not really up for questioning anymore at least not from a Science vs. Religion perspective. As of now, the question is: Which scientific theory best explains it? Which experiments can be used to prove X scientific theory? What does this mean? It means that no matter what, religious explanations are not viable explanations.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 01-04-14 at 10:03 AM.
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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Right, it was settled 100 years ago.... that's why half of the country doesn't believe in evolution.
    Ignorance on the part of the laymen has nothing to do with whether an issue has been settled in science. You won't even find 1 in 1000 biologists that don't accept evolution.
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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Not a big fan of these types of publicity stunts. Debates where Creationists get pounded into the ground are a dime a dozen and readily available to virtually anyone interested. If those who espouse creationism haven't ceded the high ground to the overwhelming scientific consensus and evidence alone, they're not likely to have a eureka moment because Bill Nye destroys their argument as well. It also has the unfortunate effect of granting their argument some facade of legitimacy. Would Ben Bernanke choose to debate monetary policy with Glenn Beck?

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Actually, most proponents of intelligent design want evolution to continue to be taught in schools, they just want equal time for competing beliefs to be explored as well. For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would oppose this.

    It's the anti-God, pro-evolution crowd that wants to silence everyone else, and drown out the 50% or so of Americans who have heard their arguments for evolution but upon examining the facts simply chose to believe something else.
    I'm extremely curious on two points; First off, what parts of the theory of evolution are facts, and what parts are the argument? Second, exactly what facts have you personally examined and simply chose not to believe? Please be specific, because I am really trying to understand a point of view I just can't wrap my head around.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I'm not afraid people will walk out atheist - because people can believe whatever they want.

    In line with that thinking, I don't see any problem teaching both theories in school and allowing kids to believe what they want.

    The atheists are the ones trying to silence one side of the debate. I'm simply saying let's give equal time to both sides.
    You see, this is where I have a problem . . . one is a Scientific THEORY that can be tested and observed over and over again . . . through the fossil record, the geology of the area fossils are found, through biology and DNA studies, etc . . . the other is an idea (not even a hypothesis) that can't be tested or observed. Seriously, and I am not calling you stupid or ignorant, but this is stuff I learned back in 7th grade biology class. Gravity is a Theory too . . . yet I am sure you believe in it.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Before anyone just dismisses Intelligent Design out of hand, they should look at all the advancements in science and medicine that have resulted due to the life sciences revolution brought about by ID. Just think about the drugs developed due to ID. Think about the genetic testing based in ID. Think about the gene therapies based in ID. Think of all the empirical evidence ID researchers have brought forward and how that has changed our understanding of the natural world. I mean come on, the contributions to science and medicine due to Intelligent Design are practically uncountable….. But wait a second, actually you can count them and when you do you come up with a big fat zero.

    ID proponents have zero positive empirical evidence in support of their position. ID proponents have contributed nothing to modern science, not even so much as a single study in favor of their proposal. ID proponents base the vast majority of their arguments for their proposal as arguments against evolution, and the vast majority of those are arguments from ignorance. ID proponents entire argument boils down to a "God of the Gaps" argument, and with that, they think they deserve at least equal footing with Evolution and taught as an alternative to evolution in science class…. Teach the controversy as they say. Problem is, there is no controversy in science regarding ID as a competing theory to Evolution. The controversy is purely a figment of their imagination. A collective delusion they wish to impose upon the country.
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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You're getting desperate. Faith requires no proof. I have seen the evidence brought by science. I have seen no evidence brought by religion. For you to claim that a person "has faith" in scientific theories is to imply that science provides no proof. This is extremely ignorant of just what it takes to create a scientific theory and the incredible amounts of evidence supporting different scientific theories. Again, you're ignoring that it's a zero sum game and it's easy to see why. We know where matter comes from. We know how humans evolved. It's not really up for questioning anymore at least not from a Science vs. Religion perspective. As of now, the question is: Which scientific theory best explains it? Which experiments can be used to prove X scientific theory? What does this mean? It means that no matter what, religious explanations are not viable explanations.
    Of course. There is LOTS of evidence. Hell...there are lots of people that are taking knowns and making assumptions and fitting them into theories. Some last...some get reworked...and...guess what...they are all still theories. And you...well...you google a bunch of theories, post a few snippets from them, and think you are somehow 'scientific'.

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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Some religious people do that. MANY are scientists, researchers, doctors, lawyers, astronauts, physicists, hell...even presidents...that just go on every day working to learn something new.

    Just as MANY people (not YOU obviously) do NO research but are just obnoxious little pricks clinging to the works of others and looking for ways to ridicule others.
    I think people should be able to believe whatever wacky thing they want to believe, but they need to keep it out of our schools and government. For that we need cold, hard, verifiable evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Thats the thing...I'm ALL ABOUT the science and research and discovery. As a person that does have very personal reasons for believing in a God, I can tell you that I believe IF the 'creation' story is true, that it came about DUE TO some form of scientific operation and not magic. I dont believe in magic. I have faith (again for very personal reason) that there is a God and that all things are done through scientific method that we cant even BEGIN to comprehend. But I think the theory and research is great...Im just not so arrogant and stupid as to to ridicule others for their limited belief system and anyone that does that...ESPECIALLY someone that does that based on Googling a few articles...well...thats a hell of a mirror in my book. My position is not which theory is correct but made as to those who promote the theories.
    Then I have no idea why you seem to find yourself on the creationist museum side. They believe nothing you do. They're young earth creationists that believe dinosaurs were domesticated by humans. Seeing as how you believe in evolution, you should be on Bill Nye's side. Bill Nye isn't making any positive claim about what sparked all of this, just that it did occur, and occurred much more than 6,000 years ago.
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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Bill Nye's entertainment career ended in the 90's. That's what I said, that's how it is. He doesn't have a show anymore. He doesn't go on talk shows. People aren't lining up to interview him.

    Maybe that's why he feels the need to come out with whacky controversial garbage like he did: the man is trying to stay relevant.

    It's kind of sad actually.

    He's like the guy that played Bud Bundy on that 90's show Married with Children. Every couple years you hear something about him trying to make a comeback, but it's just never going to happen.

    Really? I heard him a few weeks back on Penn Gillette's podcast, he spoke with Neil Degrasse Tyson, Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss at an event I was at a few months ago, he frequently does interviews...and was on Dancing with the Stars this season/

    Sounds like he has a pretty full plate lately.
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    re: Bill Nye the Science Guy to debate Creation museum founder Ken Ham[W:164]

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    I think people should be able to believe whatever wacky thing they want to believe, but they need to keep it out of our schools and government. For that we need cold, hard, verifiable evidence.



    Then I have no idea why you seem to find yourself on the creationist museum side. They believe nothing you do. They're young earth creationists that believe dinosaurs were domesticated by humans. Seeing as how you believe in evolution, you should be on Bill Nye's side. Bill Nye isn't making any positive claim about what sparked all of this, just that it did occur, and occurred much more than 6,000 years ago.
    I'm not on the "Creationist Museum" side. Im not really on any side. I accept there is an answer and we should always seek answers. I think it is foolish for people that are themselves faith based to ridicule others that are faith based. And before you say people that believe in scientific theory are not faith based...well..of COURSE they are. ANYONE that states a belief as a fact is doing the same thing. I suspect that 100 years from now they will look at the theories being promoted today as infantile. And whether you like to admit it or not, there are just as many people that mindlessly spew as 'fact' scientific theory based on things they have read as there are those that stand for the magic creation story.

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