Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 104

Thread: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot[W:40]

  1. #61
    Dungeon Master
    anti socialist

    X Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas Proud
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,727

    Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    My hero? Um ok....I guess he's a better choice than you.
    I use "hero" because you said in your OP that people considered the Duck Dynasty dude an "American Hero" so I'm assuming you would be fair and say the same about Kluwe supporters, including yourself.

    I didn't claim it was "exactly" like anything except in your head, though there are parallels. Not surprisingly, you think it's totally justified because Kluwe's viewpoint is liberal and Robertson's isn't. Kluwe talked to team lawyers first, I doubt Robertson went to that much trouble. It's not "exactly" like it. It's different on a variety of levels, but you don't think there's any similarity at all?
    And Kluwe's conversation with the lawyers is completely irrelevant if Kluwe was dropped for reasons other than his pontificating. There was zero question why Robertson was suspended (fired, whatever). Can you honestly say that about this situation? I do think it's interesting that Kluwe says he's being blackballed for his opinion, and how terrible that is, then advocates that other guy being black listed as well.

  2. #62
    Mod Conspiracy Theorist
    rocket88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    A very blue state
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,174

    Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot[W:40]

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I have to agree that owners should have the right to hire/fire based upon their own desires.

    Also, don't watch much NFL Football anymore, how good was he really doing as a Punter?
    He was good. Not great, but good enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  3. #63
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,998

    Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I do understand that taken as a whole, releasing Kluwe made sense, and that his advocacy was part of a bigger picture. On the other hand, discounting it completely as one factor among others is not really looking at the bigger picture.
    Oh, I absolutely think it's reasonable to suggest his advocacy...in general...probably had something to do with it. And I do mean advocacy in general. The gay issue is not the only thing that Kluwe has caused a media stir over as a punter. He garnered a bunch of distracting media attention around the time of the lockout for things he said and wrote. As he pointed out, the Ray Guy thing became a media cycle note when it happened. Kluwe had a prepencity to be someone to garner media attention, something that is probably not looked at as a positive for a punter REGARDLESS of what it's about.

    You'll put up with a headache if the guy is a good player and performing well. However if a guy isn't performing well and has a big cap hit for his position and is a continual distraction that probably spells the end of his time with a team.

    But the foundation there is PERFORMANCE. Had Kluwe still been a top 5 or 10 punter in the league and had a sub $1 million cap hit I would bet every dollar I have that he'd still be a Viking.

    But believing that the fact he's causing distractions by garnering a lot of media attention helped contribute to him losing his job...and believing that the specific view point he held caused it are two entirely different things.

    I think him being a distraction probably contributed. I don't think the VIEW he held was a contributing factor. Even in Kluwe's clearly not impartial account of the situation, the special teams coach is the only person giving any indicatoin (of which Kluwe even states often it felt like it was in a "joking" manner) that Kluwe's VIEWS bothered him. The Head Coach didn't seem to have any stance on the VIEW, but had an issue with the media distraction. The Owner didn't have any issue with the view; hell he liked the view. The GM didn't seem to have anything said about him.

    The three guys who actually would have personnel control...the coach, the GM, and the owner? Even Kluwe's account doesn't give an inidication of events clearly showing they didn't like his VIEW POINT. At best, they didn't like the fact he was making a lot of noise that was stirring up the media and causing a distraction.

    But again, the attempt to tie this to robertson to stupidly point at people going "HYPOCRITE" is just way, way off base. It's like asking if a ferrari is similar to a vespa because they both have wheels and an engine.

    In terms of the reasons of their termination: It's undisputable that Robertson was suspended because of people having a negative impact towards his stated view point. It's at least a question, if not a higher probability, whether or not Kluwe's release was primarily based on production.

    In terms of the circumstances leading to the statements: Phil Robertson was actively asked a question regarding his views in a broadly focused interview. Chris Kluwe actively shopped his letter about this issue to Deadspin to get them to publish it, and then was actively going around in the media to speak specifically about this issue.

    In terms of the statements relation to the product: Phil Robertson's beliefs are a central part of message of the entertainment vehicle of his employer, as indicated by the fact of them closing their shows with a prayer. Chris Kluwe's beliefs are entirely irrelevant and completely disconnected from the entertainment vehicle of his employer, as gay rights is not in any way directly related to football or the NFL.

    I was not one that was screaming "free speech" (it wasn't a free speech issue), nor one suggesting A&E didn't or shouldn't have the ability to suspend Robertson, but I don't see these two situations as being similar enough to warrant a direct comparison and attempted usage as a cudgel to beat people for being hypocritical.

  4. #64
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,998

    Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot[W:40]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    He was good. Not great, but good enough.
    He was 18th in Net yardage in 2012. So out of 32 full time punters, Chris Kluwe wasn't even in the top half. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't put that as "good". Mind you, I give him the benefit of the doubt and go with Net yardage since he claims he was told to kick it higher to compensate for coverage. If we just went with pure average, he'd be 24th...in the bottom 1/4th of the league.

    When it comes to the "skill" kick for Punters...getting it inside the 20? He was 31st out of 32 starting punters. Second to last. Not a stat for someone who was "good".

    At one point I think you could say Chris Kluwe was a very good punter. In 2012 you're being kind if you're saying Kluwe was anything better than average.

    Average punters aren't worth a near $1.5 million salary cap hit and one of the highest pay checks for a punter in the league.

  5. #65
    Sage

    Mason66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,468

    Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot[W:40]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    His former employers. He was not with the team this season, and he specifically waited until Frazier was fired before he said anything.
    You are right but that doesn't make any difference to me.

    I can't have an employee bad mouthing my company or me for a perceived slight that might or might not have happened.

    Most people are smart enough not to burn bridges, but this guy isn't.

  6. #66
    Mod Conspiracy Theorist
    rocket88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    A very blue state
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,174

    Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Oh, I absolutely think it's reasonable to suggest his advocacy...in general...probably had something to do with it. And I do mean advocacy in general. The gay issue is not the only thing that Kluwe has caused a media stir over as a punter. He garnered a bunch of distracting media attention around the time of the lockout for things he said and wrote. As he pointed out, the Ray Guy thing became a media cycle note when it happened. Kluwe had a prepencity to be someone to garner media attention, something that is probably not looked at as a positive for a punter REGARDLESS of what it's about.

    You'll put up with a headache if the guy is a good player and performing well. However if a guy isn't performing well and has a big cap hit for his position and is a continual distraction that probably spells the end of his time with a team.

    But the foundation there is PERFORMANCE. Had Kluwe still been a top 5 or 10 punter in the league and had a sub $1 million cap hit I would bet every dollar I have that he'd still be a Viking.

    But believing that the fact he's causing distractions by garnering a lot of media attention helped contribute to him losing his job...and believing that the specific view point he held caused it are two entirely different things.

    I think him being a distraction probably contributed. I don't think the VIEW he held was a contributing factor. Even in Kluwe's clearly not impartial account of the situation, the special teams coach is the only person giving any indicatoin (of which Kluwe even states often it felt like it was in a "joking" manner) that Kluwe's VIEWS bothered him. The Head Coach didn't seem to have any stance on the VIEW, but had an issue with the media distraction. The Owner didn't have any issue with the view; hell he liked the view. The GM didn't seem to have anything said about him.

    The three guys who actually would have personnel control...the coach, the GM, and the owner? Even Kluwe's account doesn't give an inidication of events clearly showing they didn't like his VIEW POINT. At best, they didn't like the fact he was making a lot of noise that was stirring up the media and causing a distraction.

    But again, the pathetic attempt to tie this to robertson to stupidly point at people going "HYPOCRITE" is just way...way off base. It's like asking if a ferrari is similar to a vespa because they both have wheels and an engine.

    In terms of the reasons of their termination: It's undisputable that Robertson was suspended because of people having a negative impact towards his stated view point. It's at least a question, if not a higher probability, whether or not Kluwe's release was primarily based on production.

    In terms of the circumstances leading to the statements: Phil Robertson was actively asked a question regarding his views in a broadly focused interview. Chris Kluwe actively shopped his letter about this issue to Deadspin to get them to publish it, and then was actively going around in the media to speak specifically about this issue.

    In terms of the statements relation to the product: Phil Robertson's beliefs are a central part of message of the entertainment vehicle of his employer, as indicated by the fact of them closing their shows with a prayer. Chris Kluwe's beliefs are entirely irrelevant and completely disconnected from the entertainment vehicle of his employer, as gay rights is not in any way directly related to football or the NFL.

    I was not one that was screaming "free speech" (it wasn't a free speech issue), nor one suggesting A&E didn't or shouldn't have the ability to suspend Robertson, but I don't see these two situations as being similar enough to warrant a direct comparison and attempted usage as a cudgel to beat people for being hypocritical.
    I'm sure it didn't take much to get Deadspin to cover it. Kluwe had written for Deadspin before. Once that got published, it was pretty much guaranteed that every media outlet in Minnesota would want to talk to him.

    I did not call anyone a hypocrite. I pointed out the similarities, and I would challenge you to go back and see where I called ANYONE in this thread a hypocrite (despite X Factor's repeated attempts to make me look like one). Though it is interesting that only one Conservative did not take the opportunity to knock Kluwe's account (of those that participated in this thread). Meanwhile there's been a concerted attempt to paint me as a hypocrite. Probably because it's easier to take on what you WANTED me to say rather than what I did say. You all have been sitting with baited breath WANTING me to say "Conservatives are hypocrites" because it would make it so easy for you. So instead of waiting for me to say it, you put the words in my mouth.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  7. #67
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,998

    Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot[W:40]

    Yes....how crazy it is to actually look at stats, look at history, and look at contractual situations of the business rather than just looking at a single article written by the person in question and forming the opinion that it's "too bad that this would happen for him speaking his mind".

    As to the hypocrite point, clearly you attempting to utilize the "Glenn Beck" defense of "I'm just asking questions" while SPECIFICALLY stating your first question in such a way as to clearly suggest that the Phil Robertson situation as comparable. Wonderful Glenn Becking of your point, beautifully done.

    Kluwe actively attempted to get media attention. That attempt caused MORE media attention, which led to issues for the team (as indicated in his own column when talking about how the team was being flooded with calls). While spending his time attempting to engage in activism he was also putting up an average at best year while making one of the highest specialists saleries in the entire league. He actively acknowledges seeing the same trend happen to another specialist kicker on his team a year before who wasn't making a big political stand in the media. Yet despite that he STILL tries to insinuate that his VIEW itself was a significant portion of his release. I don't buy it, and I don't think any of the supporting facts support it.

    The situation is barely comparable to the Robertson issue UNLESS you singularly buy the notion that Kluwe was fired for WHAT he said; which, given the evidence, is ridiculous. However, you CHOSE to compare it to such a thing....I'm sorry you dislike someone pointing out that such a comparison is idiotic, but that's what happens when you make idiotic comparisons. I'm also sorry you seem to dislike that someone takes time to actually research facts but that's something you'll just have to deal with.

  8. #68
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    08-19-16 @ 02:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    5,243

    Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Well it's clear to me given the Te'o and Rogers fiascos (and many others, going back to reggie white at least) that, regardless of the veracity of this claim, the NFL is way too homophobic to ever support.
    Seriously? A bunch of grown musclebound men in tight pants all bending over in front of the ball handler and you think they are homophobic?

  9. #69
    Sage
    chromium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    A2
    Last Seen
    06-05-17 @ 10:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    16,968

    Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    I thought about this story, but I couldn't remember Kerry Rhodes' name. Another player who's not a superstar, but definitely a decent player that you'd think someone could use at least as a backup. At Rhodes' position (Defensive Back), so many teams could use a little help.
    From what i understand, he and a few others (including Rodgers) intended to come out all at once but after the Collins story blew up, they got cold feet and in Rhodes' case, shut out of contracts. That's quite a cowardly and selfish move by the teams to be so afraid of bad publicity, while they hire a dog killer and other felons. In the offseason especially, the media circus would last a couple weeks tops, then it becomes a non issue and players in college won't have to hide anymore either.

    But with "allies" like Kluwe screaming persecution and coaches saying that gays should be nuked (if true, sounds like Priefer belongs with westboro or perhaps nuremberg if you catch my drift), who will come out in this environment?

  10. #70
    Sage
    chromium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    A2
    Last Seen
    06-05-17 @ 10:53 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    16,968

    Re: I Was An NFL Player Until I Was Fired By Two Cowards And A Bigot[W:40]

    Quote Originally Posted by tacomancer View Post
    His firing seemed justified to me. Like it or not him being outspoken could affect the financial well being of the franchise.

    Tim tebow would be fired for the same exact reason, but I think his views probably add fans so there is no reason to.

    Such is the plight of being in the public eye. Increased scrutiny.
    Yeah, some might be prejudiced so let's cater to that. I suppose baseball shouldn't have allowed that rabble rouser Jackie Robinson into the league either.

Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •