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Thread: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

  1. #141
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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    You really think with a military action being this unpopular, they would go ahead and attempt a strike? I think it was in large part due to it's unpopularity, along with the Russian deal, that is the reason we didn't end up attacking them. Seriously, at one point, Congress was more popular than military action against Syria. And you know, when you're polling is worse than congress... don't even bother.
    The unpopularity complicated the issue, but in seriousness there's little chance America's political leadership would wilfully indulge the risk of the Middle East spiraling into a chemical weapons race/war. It will take a much higher level of dysfunction and demagoguery than the Tea Party has been able to bring to accomplish that. If necessary, they would have taken the plunge together.

    Russia's intervention is read mostly as a rebuke of Obama, but that's because the American public is deluded by personality politics. In truth, Russia's intervention was much more of a boon to the U.S. (and that includes Obama) than a hindrance. Russia and U.S. are competitors, but they have no choice but to cooperate when it comes to defusing arms races and national rivalries in the Middle East.

    I should mention that Russia itself was in an awkward position because the use of chemical weapons in the Middle East is a special taboo because it harms all of our interests to see one of the global economy's primary sources of energy spiral into sectarian conflict, and Syria is in their camp. From a diplomatic perspective, Russia dropped the ball in allowing Assad to use chemical weapons.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Hey! We didn't bite on Syria! I was very proud that we learned out lesson so well and listen to those pacifist Russians.
    Oh hell HB, unfortunately Syria is an anomaly. If the Russians are always wrong, they were right on Syria.

  3. #143
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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    The unpopularity complicated the issue, but in seriousness there's little chance America's political leadership would wilfully indulge the risk of the Middle East spiraling into a chemical weapons race/war. It will take a much higher level of dysfunction and demagoguery than the Tea Party has been able to bring to accomplish that. If necessary, they would have taken the plunge together.

    Russia's intervention is read mostly as a rebuke of Obama, but that's because the American public is deluded by personality politics. In truth, Russia's intervention was much more of a boon to the U.S. (and that includes Obama) than a hindrance. Russia and U.S. are competitors, but they have no choice but to cooperate when it comes to defusing arms races and national rivalries in the Middle East.

    I should mention that Russia itself was in an awkward position because the use of chemical weapons in the Middle East is a special taboo because it harms all of our interests to see one of the global economy's primary sources of energy spiral into sectarian conflict, and Syria is in their camp. From a diplomatic perspective, Russia dropped the ball in allowing Assad to use chemical weapons.
    Ironically, I think keeping Assad in power is actually what is best for both the Russians AND the US. Russia gets to keep it's puppet, and we don't have to worry about a radical Islamist taking over a country with chemical weapons.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The Lusitania was an armaments transport ship. North Vietnam did not attack a US ship in the Gulf of Tonkin. The Spanish did not sink the Maine. Iraq did not have WMDs.
    And the Mexicans did not attack a US military encampment on US soil.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Ironically, I think keeping Assad in power is actually what is best for both the Russians AND the US. Russia gets to keep it's puppet, and we don't have to worry about a radical Islamist taking over a country with chemical weapons.
    Indeed. After Iraq, nobody in the U.S. (and that includes Obama) seriously "wants" to flex our military muscle. But we also don't want to lose traction on long established policies and goals.

    Assad using chemical weapons antagonizes the fragile balance of peace in the Middle East, a peace we have devoted decades of resources to preserve. From that perspective, Obama had little choice but to draw lines and make threats.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Indeed. After Iraq, nobody in the U.S. (and that includes Obama) seriously "wants" to flex our military muscle. But we also don't want to lose traction on long established policies and goals.

    Assad using chemical weapons antagonizes the fragile balance of peace in the Middle East, a peace we have devoted decades of resources to preserve. From that perspective, Obama had little choice but to draw lines and make threats.
    You making a funny MG, or has it just escaped you that Obama's drone campaign is Bush on steroids, Libya, the recent "flexing" in the China sea?

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You making a funny MG, or has it just escaped you that Obama's drone campaign is Bush on steroids, Libya, the recent "flexing" in the China sea?
    ... and you think that a black Chicago community organizer has greater personal motivation than the Bush family to assert our military presence?

    Obama's actions are consistent with longstanding policies, decided generations ago. Policies that benefit many demographics and income brackets more directly than his, but which must be supported because they involve the fortunes of all Americans and our allies to some degree.

    Obama's foreign policy is Bush on steroids because it is impersonal.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 12-30-13 at 10:38 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    ... and you think that a black Chicago community organizer has greater personal motivation than the Bush family to assert our military presence?

    Obama's actions are consistent with longstanding policies, decided generations ago. Policies that benefit many demographics and income brackets more directly than his, but which must be supported because they involve the fortunes of all Americans and our allies to some degree.

    Obama's foreign policy is Bush on steroids because it is impersonal.
    Oh no, I don't think that at all, but the military muscle has been flexed under him. And I certainly agree with the rest of your comment.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh no, I don't think that at all, but the military muscle has been flexed under him. And I certainly agree with the rest of your comment.
    America looks weaker the more it flexes its muscle because the reality of making your military presence felt in every corner of the globe falls short of the romance. The Roman and British Empires began encountering a similar trouble. There are all manner of ways alien populations can resist and destroy your rule that don't entail direct opposition that can be smoked out into the open and crushed by your expensive military.

    Post-Iraq, we only flex our muscle where it is necessary based on global economic relations or pre-existing alliances.

    China flexing its muscle does nothing but good for China, even if they don't get their way. Just facing the U.S. as an apparent equal has domestic political advantages for the Communist Party. Us responding to China reminds the rest of the world that we're still policing them, which is sometimes received positively but more often negatively.

    The only win-win situation for the United States is when (1) everything works and (2) everybody knows we played a leading role in making that happen.

    If we're flexing our muscle, that means something isn't working.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  10. #150
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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    China isn't projecting itself in that way, it has hugely increased its military budget in the last decade, concerned about US imperialism.
    Do you support or just excuse Chinese military spending based on "because of the US"? Do you support US military spending?


    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Exactly the point! But wait till China bitch slaps us one day and then these nay Sayers will understand.
    If China acts militarily against the US, the debt is cancelled - causing China to fragment and the US to become the richest nation ever. Please, please China let the US cancel its debt.

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