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Thread: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Exactly, almost all of them. Really makes one wonder why Americans never learn this lesson, but always, and nearly blindly, line up behind the government in solidarity to wage the next one! Strange isn't it?
    Hey! We didn't bite on Syria! I was very proud that we learned out lesson so well and listen to those pacifist Russians.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    China could soon defeat the United States and its allies in a naval conflict in the East Pacific, says Vassily Kashin, a senior research fellow at the Moscow-based Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies.

    In a commentary published on Dec. 27 on the website of the Voice of Russia, the Russian government's international radio broadcasting service, Kashin says it is "highly probable" that by 2020 China could defeat the US in a local conflict in the east part of the Pacific or slow down the transportation of US forces to the region after it completes its current cycle of reforming and rearming the People's Liberation Army.

    "China could be able of reaching its political goals even before the US localizes all the necessary forces for a full-scale counterattack," Kashin said.

    China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst


    Well, we could only hope that such events need not ever be stress tested.
    Maybe we should just go ahead and offer California to the Chinese as a concession.

    We'll start with a high bid, and maybe eventually meet in the middle.

    If the Chinese don't like it and want a fight, I'm sure Michael Moore and Bill Maher will be the first to suit up for the war.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by shart attack View Post
    Maybe we should just go ahead and offer California to the Chinese as a concession.

    We'll start with a high bid, and maybe eventually meet in the middle.

    If the Chinese don't like it and want a fight, I'm sure Michael Moore and Bill Maher will be the first to suit up for the war.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Hey! We didn't bite on Syria! I was very proud that we learned out lesson so well and listen to those pacifist Russians.
    ... I doubt our failure to make good on our threat to attack Syria had much to do with an increase in wisdom.

    (1) Democrats were tied up by their constituents

    (2) Republicans do anything to undermine Obama.

    (3) Our allies weren't really willing to match our commitment due to domestic politics

    (4) Russia offered us an easier alternative to make good on our 'principles' and obligations to our Middle East allies, backed by a threat of turning Syria into a proxy war along with the intrinsic threat of it turning into a second Iraq. The highest and most practical levels of our government had little choice but to accept from a diplomatic and domestic politics perspective.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 12-30-13 at 09:47 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    ... I doubt our failure to make good on our threat to attack Syria had much to do with an increase in wisdom.

    (1) Democrats had to answer to their constituents.

    (2) Republicans do anything to undermine Obama.

    (3) Russia offered us an easier alternative to make good on our 'principles' backed by a threat of turning Syria into a proxy war. The highest and most practical levels of our government had little choice but to accept from a diplomatic and domestic politics perspective.
    Did you miss Pelosi and Mccain talking about the morals reasons to attack? Or Obama's live speech? They really gave it their best shot...

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...than-congress/
    Last edited by Hamster Buddha; 12-30-13 at 09:58 PM. Reason: Sourcing

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    Did you miss Pelosi and Mccain talking about the morals reasons to attack? Or Obama's live speech? They really gave it their best shot...
    He did, mostly out of "obligation." The global and domestic political climate changed fast.

    For example, if Putin had merely threatened the United States with a proxy war, then the outcome would have been very different. Instead, he presented a deal Russia had the ability to make good on (taking Syria's chemical weapons away) that allowed the United States to fulfill the barest provisions of its strategic partnership with Saudi Arabia and other Middle East allies. The threat of a proxy war was an addition to that offer; international relations are similar to relations between organized crime syndicates; a mixture of respect, veiled threats, and not so veiled threats, made to different people at different times to communicate complex messages.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    He did, mostly out of "obligation." The global and domestic political climate changed fast.

    For example, if Putin had merely threatened the United States with a proxy war, then the outcome would have been very different. Instead, he presented a deal Russia had the ability to make good on (taking Syria's chemical weapons away) that allowed the United States to fulfill the barest provisions of its strategic partnership with Saudi Arabia and other Middle East allies. The threat of a proxy war was an addition to that offer; international relations are similar to relations between organized crime syndicates; a mixture of respect, veiled threats, and not so veiled threats, made to different people at different times to communicate complex messages.
    My point though was that, even before the Russians came in with the deal, it still wasn't exactly polling very well with many Americans.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    My point though was that, even before the Russians came in with the deal, it still wasn't exactly polling very well with many Americans.
    No, but that didn't really matter. There were still plenty of conservatives and liberals who would have supported military action.

    There's a perception among Americans that our political leadership consists of disaffected ***holes who are out of touch with the concerns, beliefs, and challenges of the majority of the body politic. That's true, but the American people are similarly disaffected from the complexities of global economic and military relations, and mostly ignorant of the very tangible ways in which it affects their everyday lives.

    American policy in places like the Middle East is pre-established by generations of military action, diplomatic accomplishment, enduring economic reality, and statesmanship. All except the worst demagogues in government place that "tradition" ahead of the transitory opinions of the American public over whether our country should be an active power in the world.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 12-30-13 at 10:09 PM.
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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    No, but that didn't really matter. There were still plenty of conservatives and liberals who would have supported military action.

    There's a perception among Americans that our political leadership consists of disaffected assholes who are out of touch with the concerns, beliefs, and challenges of the majority of the body politic. That's true, but the American people are similarly disaffected from the complexities of global economic and military relations and mostly ignorant of the very tangible ways in which it affects their everyday lives.

    American policy in places in the Middle East is pre-established by generations of military action and statesmanship. All except the worst demagogues in government place that "tradition" ahead of the transitory perceptions of the American people as a whole.
    You really think with a military action being this unpopular, they would go ahead and attempt a strike? I think it was in large part due to it's unpopularity, along with the Russian deal, that is the reason we didn't end up attacking them. Seriously, at one point, Congress was more popular than military action against Syria. And you know, when you're polling is worse than congress... don't even bother.

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    Re: China could defeat US in East Pacific conflict by 2020: Russian analyst

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Exactly, almost all of them. Really makes one wonder why Americans never learn this lesson, but always, and nearly blindly, line up behind the government in solidarity to wage the next one! Strange isn't it?
    The Lusitania was an armaments transport ship. North Vietnam did not attack a US ship in the Gulf of Tonkin. The Spanish did not sink the Maine. Iraq did not have WMDs.

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