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Thread: Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence (WAPO)

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    Re: Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence (WAPO)

    Saddam Hussein was NEVER EVER capable of producing a mushroom cloud over any US city. But hey, the fear-mongering worked, Bush got his dirty war and to this day we still have people right here defending it. Amazing!

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    Re: Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence (WAPO)

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence estimate warns - The Washington Post

    Afganistan, and some US "officials dispute (are in denial) this. ( see link)
    Was there any doubt that nation building would not work? That forcing democracy on a people that did not want it was the wrong thing to do. We had 14 tribes of the Northern Alliance on our side as they drove the Taliban out of Afghanistan with the help of our air power and their troops on the ground. This was before we put in the troops, all we had as a few SF and paramilitary advisors on the ground. Then nation building began along with all the troops we put into Afghanistan to enforce it.

    This is not what our 14 tribe allies wanted. They wanted to return to tribal government and their own areas of Afghanistan they had ruled prior to the Taliban trying to take over all of Afghanistan and giving sanctuaries and safe haven to UBL and AQ. They just wanted to return to their way of life and government they had know for over a thousand years. But that was not the U.S. idea. Today, we only retain the loyalty of a couple of the 14 tribes that were first loyal to us. This is what happens when we force our ideals and ways of governing on a people who have no wish to live under our idea of how they should govern themselves. The right of self determination was taken from them in our attempt to nation build.

    Afghanistan is lost, only those in government do not know it yet. Iraq has only a 50-50 chance of succeeding. Such is life and the world of geopolitics when a foreign power tries to force something on a people that they do not want.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence (WAPO)

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Saddam Hussein was NEVER EVER capable of producing a mushroom cloud over any US city. But hey, the fear-mongering worked, Bush got his dirty war and to this day we still have people right here defending it. Amazing!
    Yep...that George Bush guy...
    "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
    "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
    "The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."

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    Re: Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence (WAPO)

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    You really think so? The US is much clearer than most countries. But just think of Obama's drone attacks, NSA surveillance, "all options on the table" or "red line" statements.
    I got the prediction pretty well (though I had not expected the escalation of drone strikes to the extent they came) and I am sure the specialists around the world were not surprised. But the public was surprised and that is costing us.
    Obama is clear as mud. Escalating/de-escalting Afg. withdrawl dates of 2011, except not really.

    Signature strikes that target in Pakistan
    Over the span of more than a year, drones killed 114 people, and the CIA couldn't determine the terrorist affiliations of a quarter of the victims, a new report shows.
    CIA classified 25% of drone victims as 'other,' couldn't identify terrorist affiliation | Circa News

    taking a "no fly" in Libya to regime change....I can understand you're lack of clarity... Obama just makes **** up.
    Oṃ maṇi padme hūṃ

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    Re: Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence (WAPO)

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Saddam Hussein was NEVER EVER capable of producing a mushroom cloud over any US city. But hey, the fear-mongering worked, Bush got his dirty war and to this day we still have people right here defending it. Amazing!
    I don't think Nukes were ever a serious consideration. Possibility maybe, but it was the their other WMD's that concerned us the most.

  6. #56
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    Re: Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence (WAPO)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamster Buddha View Post
    I don't think Nukes were ever a serious consideration. Possibility maybe, but it was the their other WMD's that concerned us the most.
    WMDs concerned "us" most?


    Genocide twice (250k Iraqis), invading neighbors twice (500k Iraqis) and selling food-from-oil (400k, children) concerned a few of us. Also, 17 unscrs violated, firing on no-flies created to stop genocide, institutional rape...

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    Re: Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence (WAPO)

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Was there any doubt that nation building would not work? That forcing democracy on a people that did not want it was the wrong thing to do. We had 14 tribes of the Northern Alliance on our side as they drove the Taliban out of Afghanistan with the help of our air power and their troops on the ground. This was before we put in the troops, all we had as a few SF and paramilitary advisors on the ground. Then nation building began along with all the troops we put into Afghanistan to enforce it.

    This is not what our 14 tribe allies wanted. They wanted to return to tribal government and their own areas of Afghanistan they had ruled prior to the Taliban trying to take over all of Afghanistan and giving sanctuaries and safe haven to UBL and AQ. They just wanted to return to their way of life and government they had know for over a thousand years. But that was not the U.S. idea. Today, we only retain the loyalty of a couple of the 14 tribes that were first loyal to us. This is what happens when we force our ideals and ways of governing on a people who have no wish to live under our idea of how they should govern themselves. The right of self determination was taken from them in our attempt to nation build.

    Afghanistan is lost, only those in government do not know it yet. Iraq has only a 50-50 chance of succeeding. Such is life and the world of geopolitics when a foreign power tries to force something on a people that they do not want.

    What's ironic is it's the same thing that happened in Vietnam for the US and Afghanistan for Russia. We simply don't have the ability or sheer resources to change a societies thousand year old culture, especially when it's foreign and unwanted by them.

    And by fighting/killing locals or insurgents who are sympathetic extremists we only inspire a steady supply of enemies. It's really kind of a stupid, hamster wheel endeavor trying to fight an ideology that feeds on the very terror we provide.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence (WAPO)

    Quote Originally Posted by annata View Post
    Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence estimate warns - The Washington Post

    Afganistan, and some US "officials dispute (are in denial) this. ( see link)
    They were unsustainable anyway.

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    Re: Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence (WAPO)

    Quote Originally Posted by vancemack View Post
    yep...that george bush guy...
    "we know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as saddam is in power."
    "we have known for many years that saddam hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
    "the last un weapons inspectors left iraq in october of 1998. We are confident that saddam hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
    mushroom clouds over us cities!

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    Re: Afghanistan gains will be lost quickly after drawdown, U.S. intelligence (WAPO)

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    What's ironic is it's the same thing that happened in Vietnam for the US and Afghanistan for Russia. We simply don't have the ability or sheer resources to change a societies thousand year old culture, especially when it's foreign and unwanted by them.

    And by fighting/killing locals or insurgents who are sympathetic extremists we only inspire a steady supply of enemies. It's really kind of a stupid, hamster wheel endeavor trying to fight an ideology that feeds on the very terror we provide.
    Yep, in Vietnam we made the South Vietnamese change their government from a mandarin style into a democracy while a war was going on. The Romans created and ruled their Empire which lasted 500 years or so because once they conquered a people, a nation, a state, they let them basically government themselves, maintain their culture and traditions with a Roman overseer to collect the taxes due Rome. They did not try to change the people into Romans, they let them be themselves to be ruled locally by their fellow tribesmen or countrymen.

    We accomplished our original mission pretty darn quick, within a couple to few months. We with air power and the Afghani on the ground drove out the Taliban thus stopping the training grounds and safe havens for AQ. We didn't get UBL, but the Northern Alliance, a group of tribes allied together against the Taliban were our friends. We could have let them set up their local government as they wanted and saw fit. Keep our air power at the ready and let the Afghani fight on the ground. But those in power here thought they new better and started this nation building stuff which was nothing more than forcing our type of government upon those who didn't want it. Now we are left with what we have, most likely a nation that will revert in the near future to what they originally wanted once the Taliban were driven out. Except this time, the Taliban is coming back and probably quite a lot of those tribes that fought to drive them our, will be fighting by their side to return them power. What a mess nation building has caused.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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