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Thread: GOP Rep Suggests Kids Clean Schools In Exchange For Lunch

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    Re: GOP Rep Suggests Kids Clean Schools In Exchange For Lunch

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    When you make such things a "requirement", that's where you are going wrong. Pride and a personal stake in an institution isn't something that can be instilled into a person by force.
    But there is a difference between "duty" and "force."

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    Re: GOP Rep Suggests Kids Clean Schools In Exchange For Lunch

    Whether you agree with this representative's ideas or not, you all better start coming up with something that will start to instill in the youth the value of good work ethics and personal responsibility because most of their parents aren't going to step up to the challenge. And because of all these generous programs mainly implemented by Democrats over decades and have been allowed to grow out of control, we are facing a debt crisis. If ever there was a time to teach people to be self sufficient it would be now.

    Funny, but when welfare reform took place a decade or so, the number of births to single moms dropped as well. When the programs are not so readily available, seems folks tend to make better life choices. But since Obama, those reforms have been removed and increases in these programs have soared as well as the births to single mothers.

    The 2013 Index of Dependence on Government

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    Re: GOP Rep Suggests Kids Clean Schools In Exchange For Lunch

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I never found anything where the Congressman suggested an age as you did stating 2nd-3rd graders. I didn't see anything that stated it had to be during school hours in front of their classmates either.
    He stated the school free and reduced lunch program. That applies to all kids in school from kindergarten through 12th grade. If they don't do it during school hours when are going to go do it? Kids these days get homework every night from kindergarten on. It was not uncommon for our kids to get as much as 2 hours of homework in that we would be helping them with in 1st and 2nd grade some nights.


    Truth be in some of these school districts where welfare has become a way of life for the community, the majority of the kids are on subsidized lunch programs. I did find where he stated instead of subsidizing the entire lunch, at least having the child pay something....a dime....so that he learns the lunch wasn't free. Today most schools not only provide a free lunch but they provide breakfast too. And add to that they have after school programs which amount to babysitting services till the parents can pick the kids up from school. All these programs come with a price tag. I pay through real estate taxes. My property taxes make up almost half of the total of my house payment. The one living in subsidized housing doesn't pay a dime. It is because of all these welfare programs that people are being taught that there is no personal responsibility for their life choices because government will provide. They take away the incentive of many not to strive to be all they can. This cycle of taught dependency promoted by the government has to be stopped.
    Do you not understand there is a difference between all the programs their parents may get like SNAP, Section 8, the EIC, and WIC, and the free and reduced lunch program that their kids might qualify for at school? Kids do not carry lunch money to school anymore. You put money in a school lunch account, they just get in line and get their lunch regardless of whether they are on free or reduced lunches, or their parents pay for their lunch.

    Moreover, many of the kids on free or reduced lunches have parents that do work. The income guidelines go up to 185% of the federal poverty level. If the kids parents work full time doing most low skilled labor, their kids qualify for free or reduced lunches.

    Finally, it is a fairly small program in the scheme of things, and a federal program, thus its not paid out of your property taxes. Its paid out of general federal revenues. The cost for it to the average taxpayer is a total of $1.50 a week or so. It is costing you all of a dollar or two a week to make sure that a kid of poor or working poor parents gets a lunch when they go to school.

    I am all for having work requirements on various grants and aid programs that help poor kids go to college or technical schools. I just don't think we should have kids working for a lunch at school. Especially considering we all benefit from them being there getting an education in the first place.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: GOP Rep Suggests Kids Clean Schools In Exchange For Lunch

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    When you make such things a "requirement", that's where you are going wrong. Pride and a personal stake in an institution isn't something that can be instilled into a person by force.
    When I look at Israel I have to disagree. I see the amount of civil involvement and political concern being a direct outgrowth of such programs, being that everyone has skin on the line

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    Re: GOP Rep Suggests Kids Clean Schools In Exchange For Lunch

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Funny, but when welfare reform took place a decade or so, the number of births to single moms dropped as well. When the programs are not so readily available, seems folks tend to make better life choices. But since Obama, those reforms have been removed and increases in these programs have soared as well as the births to single mothers.

    The 2013 Index of Dependence on Government
    That is absolutely absurd. There is greater dependence on federal programs today because of the depressed state of the economy since the great recession. If it is Obama's fault, then its a failure of his macro economic policies, not the fictional destruction of welfare reform. Unfortunately, history has shown time and time again, as well what is observable in various poor nations around the world, that poor people have kids they cannot afford to support regardless of whether there are any welfare programs or not. There is no correlation at all between welfare states and the poor having kids they cannot afford. In fact, in much of western europe the opposite seems to be true. The birth rate today in the USA is less than half what it was before we had any social safety nets in place. The best way to keep people from having kids they cannot afford is to encourage family planning and contraceptive use as much as possible. Sign up for SNAP, ok, but you also have to attend these family planning classes. You need Section 8, sure, but you have to attend these classes on contraceptive use and so on. If anything, we ought to have a free and reduced contraceptive program. Would probably pay back in dividends.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: GOP Rep Suggests Kids Clean Schools In Exchange For Lunch

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    But there is a difference between "duty" and "force."
    Please explain the difference, I thought it was my duty to serve my country, but once in I found 'they' could force me to do things my momma wouldn't have agreed with...

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    Re: GOP Rep Suggests Kids Clean Schools In Exchange For Lunch

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    He stated the school free and reduced lunch program. That applies to all kids in school from kindergarten through 12th grade. If they don't do it during school hours when are going to go do it? Kids these days get homework every night from kindergarten on. It was not uncommon for our kids to get as much as 2 hours of homework in that we would be helping them with in 1st and 2nd grade some nights.
    Do you not understand there is a difference between all the programs their parents may get like SNAP, Section 8, the EIC, and WIC, and the free and reduced lunch program that their kids might qualify for at school? Kids do not carry lunch money to school anymore. You put money in a school lunch account, they just get in line and get their lunch regardless of whether they are on free or reduced lunches, or their parents pay for their lunch.
    Yes I am aware of it. But the one that doesn't have to pay anything knows his is free. At a young age he is taught he is a 'victim',
    Moreover, many of the kids on free or reduced lunches have parents that do work. The income guidelines go up to 185% of the federal poverty level. If the kids parents work full time doing most low skilled labor, their kids qualify for free or reduced lunches.
    The requirements have been lowered to allow more to qualify. When you make it available for those who surely can provide a lunch for their child even if it is a packed lunch makes no sense.
    Finally, it is a fairly small program in the scheme of things, and a federal program, thus its not paid out of your property taxes. Its paid out of general federal revenues. The cost for it to the average taxpayer is a total of $1.50 a week or so. It is costing you all of a dollar or two a week to make sure that a kid of poor or working poor parents gets a lunch when they go to school.
    Like all federally subsidized programs, they NEVER reimburse the full amount of the cost. Someone else picks up the tab and in my case it is through property taxes. And the program has been extended to include breakfasts and after school snacks not just lunch
    I am all for having work requirements on various grants and aid programs that help poor kids go to college or technical schools. I just don't think we should have kids working for a lunch at school. Especially considering we all benefit from them being there getting an education in the first place.
    Well you better start coming up with some ideas you do like that will instill good work ethics and personal responsibility in children that are not being shown by example at home. Because we can no longer continue paying for it all.
    Last edited by vesper; 12-20-13 at 11:23 AM.

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    Re: GOP Rep Suggests Kids Clean Schools In Exchange For Lunch

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    When I look at Israel I have to disagree. I see the amount of civil involvement and political concern being a direct outgrowth of such programs, being that everyone has skin on the line
    Except that most of the skin in the game is a myth. Did you notice the big right wing uproar over 'forcing' the ultra-religious folks to skin-up? Even as more social unrest occurs pushing for a peaceful settlement of the Palestinian 'question' because mothers are tired of burying their sons and daughters the government- led by a man who never put his own skin in the game but used his dead brother's as a political tool- still pushed settlements into the West Bank.

    Now ending the draft in this country might be a better example. Since the Middle Class doesn't have to worry about their kid being scooped up for service in a war, the questioning of any new war is slow to develop.

    Having skin in the game doesn't seem to be as big a factor as not having that skin in there.

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    Re: GOP Rep Suggests Kids Clean Schools In Exchange For Lunch

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    How often to you go to government housing, like the projects and see this? I just don't see you going within a 5 mile radius of one yet you say you see it.
    I suggest you do some reading, if capable, and then your comment may mean something

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    Re: GOP Rep Suggests Kids Clean Schools In Exchange For Lunch

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Yes I am aware of it. But the one that doesn't have to pay anything knows his is free. At a young age he is taught he is a 'victim',
    Oh for crying out loud. Hardly any kids know who pays for their lunch. Most of them could not even tell you how much it costs. You have a pretty abstract view of what the perspective of being poor is. As I stated earlier, I grew up quite poor, and though we could have qualified for free or reduced lunches we did not take them, but I can't say I ever felt like a victim. If you want to see a kid with a sense of entitlement, look no further than a child of privilege.

    The requirements have been lowered to allow more to qualify. When you make it available for those who surely can provide a lunch for their child even if it is a packed lunch makes no sense.
    The requirements are 185% of the federal poverty level. That has not changed in God knows how long. For example, if a single mother has 2 kids, then she can earn up to $36,000 to qualify for free or reduced lunches. Now lets do the math:

    She works 40 hours a week at 10 dollars an hour. That gets her to 20,000 dollars a year. She then works nights waiting tables which gets up her to say, $35,000 a year. That qualifies her kids for reduced lunches, not free. Just the same, you say, well why not just have her kids pack their lunch. Well, lets do the math again:

    She takes home about 2500 dollars a month.

    Rent is 1200 dollars a month minimum.
    Car payment for an inexpensive vehicle is another 300 dollars a month.
    Food, well thats around 600 dollars a month these days. If she applied at that household size and income level she could qualify for 150 dollars in snap benefits or so. So lets put her food budget at 400 dollars a month out of pocket.
    Gas money, another 100 dollars a month minimum.
    Utilities, even if some are included in rent, its still going to be a minimum of another 100 dollars a month.
    Not leaving much left at this point, and we are not even getting into clothes, incidentals, and all the other costs we all face in our day to day lives.

    But hey, lets make her kids sweep floors because we want them to learn the value of work. You obviously have no idea what its like to grow up in poverty or to be a single mother trying earn enough to raise your kids, but just like this congressman, you want to tell them what is wrong with them anyway.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 12-20-13 at 11:57 AM.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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