• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Woman living "off the grid" faces eviction

Over population is why potable water is hard to find. Not rising oceans.

It is a combination of both. When Miami is under a foot or two of water and millions leave potable water will continue to be an issue.
 
Most places in florida use a formula based on water consumption. so if you don't consume water then your sewage bill would be nothing as well.

also most places in florida have laws on collecting rain water. it is usually considered a public resource, but in FL it is legal to collect it in rain barrels.
although i probably shouldn't be used for consumption unless you have some kind of filtration system to run it through.

also she isn't evicted yet a judge has to sign off on the order and there is an attorney that is helping her for no cost.
local city government are getting out of control on their stupid code enforcement.

as long as you are paying your taxes not harming someone else's property then it is your land to do with what you want.




Unless the government needs it to build a road on, in which case you will be moving and the government will be doing what it wants to do with what used to be your land.

That the way that it works for the government and against the citizens in the USA.
 
I view the electricity and gas and water and sewage lines like a source for mainline drugs for an addict. Get them addicted and charge what the traffic will bear. Property tax says the gov't owns your property and you just lease. It is the "tax system" and these people improve their lot by raising taxes (gov'ts and administrators). The worst part of this is that the utilities have become partners in this tax system to maintain their addictions or monopolies. Try selling electricity to your neighbor, or gas, etc. There has been an organized effort to block Renewable Energy for at least 30 years and nobody notices. Why do you think the 10 million dollar windmills are subsidized as renewable energy. It's because their output goes into the existing Monopolistic Utility Grid, or mainline addiction source, and everybody gets their share of the booty, except the taxpayer. Now, a little common sense will tell you why local level renewable energy, think small windmill or solar on local rooftops, is not funded by these huge gov't programs. To me, this situation in Florida is just a flagrant expose of the monopoly utility and tax problem. I think we all must look deeper to the gov't prevention of independence.

I totally agree with that and have argued for years that property tax ought never have been allowed to come into existence and as you said makes a "property owner" a lease occupant in effect. I think life, liberty and the ownership of property (which would have the implied prohibition of property taxes) some how found its way around to life, liberty and the pursuit (might never find it) of happiness.
 
Or a bucket and a shovel, eh?

Hey shrub, no really there's not a comparison to the two. The composting toilet reduces waste to a small amount of rather an ashy looking substance completely safe to put in the garden or around the flowers. Your probably just making a funny though, I know.
 
Hey shrub, no really there's not a comparison to the two. The composting toilet reduces waste to a small amount of rather an ashy looking substance completely safe to put in the garden or around the flowers. Your probably just making a funny though, I know.




I'm into recycling, but there's a line that I don't cross.

Like Jefferson my well stopped producing a few years ago, but my answer was to go deeper into a better zone- now I can pump water 24/7 if I want to and it never slows down.

My guess is that this lady must have stepped on someones toes at city hall and that person is looking for some pay-back.
 
Last edited:
I got ya man. I wasn't really promoting the composting toilet, just didn't want it categorized with a bucket and shovel. Glad you found better water when you went deeper.
 
I have no problem with requiring her to prove that she is disposing of her sewage and trash properly and not causing any other environmental problems with her practices. If she isn't causing harm she should be left alone.
 
Saw this elsewhere and like there it lacks details. It's certain to rile many as written, but without all the facts it's rhetorical to judge. For example it is my understanding she doesn't use city water but collects rain water which I do as well where I live now. However I don't live near any city and she is in one or so I'm told. So when there is a fire at her house, and her rain water is insufficient to put it out and the fire truck opens up a hydrant....she should not have paid for the water lines and all?

Hydrants are public utility not generally private property.
 
I think that you missed Maggie's point. Water/sewer are a single utility bill, yet the billing is based only on the water usage. The home is using the sewer service but is avoiding any bill for it by supplying their own water to flush the toilet (into the city sewer).

If that is the case, the billing system can be adjusted so that she still pays for her (presumed) sewer system use.

In some dryer locations it may be reasonable to limit the amount of rain water that one can divert for personal use since that could impact the ground water supply and other natural systems (creeks etc.) dependent on rain water.
 
she will be assimilated.

Picard_as_Locutus.jpg
 
Dude, I have lived here all my life. Get over the idea that Florida is going to be submerged in a few years. Bull.

It's not my fault you've lived there all your life. You are as free to get the hell out as anyone else.

There is much published scientific information, studies and projections on the internet. A number of the studies and projections are accepted by city and county governments. City and country planners and engineers and water management officials are well aware and have said so publicly. You obviously have read any of that or you are just so much smarter than people who study such things for a living.

When insurance companies refused to provide reasonable building/housing insurance in those projected areas and when banks refuse to make long term loans on houses/buildings in those areas perhaps you'll be able to convince the money people they are all wrong and that you are correct. In the meantime the industry is betting against you.
 
I doubt it's that simple. If the town has habitability laws requiring running water, electrical service and sewer connection, they aren't going to re-write the laws for her. If she has such service, then, in my opinion, sans unsafe living conditions because she doesn't use them, she's good to go.

A village can't force one to drink tap water...turn on lights...flush toilets. But they can force people to have access to these amenities; and, by virtue of their NOT using these things, they can enforce public safety concerns.

The only reason there is still a meter on my house for electricity is if I decide to sell the place.
 
If that is the case, the billing system can be adjusted so that she still pays for her (presumed) sewer system use.

In some dryer locations it may be reasonable to limit the amount of rain water that one can divert for personal use since that could impact the ground water supply and other natural systems (creeks etc.) dependent on rain water.

No! I can tell you as a user of rain water and not a city tap (many of my neighbors as well) we are VERY frugal with our usage. This lady is too, I assure you, and her usage impacts the ground water supply far less than if she were to be tapped into the cities water and wasting water as we tend to do when it feels like there's an endless supply. She keeps close tabs on her cisterns capacity and adjusts her usage accordingly.
 
It's not my fault you've lived there all your life. You are as free to get the hell out as anyone else.

There is much published scientific information, studies and projections on the internet. A number of the studies and projections are accepted by city and county governments. City and country planners and engineers and water management officials are well aware and have said so publicly. You obviously have read any of that or you are just so much smarter than people who study such things for a living.

When insurance companies refused to provide reasonable building/housing insurance in those projected areas and when banks refuse to make long term loans on houses/buildings in those areas perhaps you'll be able to convince the money people they are all wrong and that you are correct. In the meantime the industry is betting against you.
Get out? Not a chance. Love it here. Never moving.
 
I view the electricity and gas and water and sewage lines like a source for mainline drugs for an addict. Get them addicted and charge what the traffic will bear. Property tax says the gov't owns your property and you just lease. It is the "tax system" and these people improve their lot by raising taxes (gov'ts and administrators). The worst part of this is that the utilities have become partners in this tax system to maintain their addictions or monopolies. Try selling electricity to your neighbor, or gas, etc. There has been an organized effort to block Renewable Energy for at least 30 years and nobody notices. Why do you think the 10 million dollar windmills are subsidized as renewable energy. It's because their output goes into the existing Monopolistic Utility Grid, or mainline addiction source, and everybody gets their share of the booty, except the taxpayer. Now, a little common sense will tell you why local level renewable energy, think small windmill or solar on local rooftops, is not funded by these huge gov't programs. To me, this situation in Florida is just a flagrant expose of the monopoly utility and tax problem. I think we all must look deeper to the gov't prevention of independence.

General Electric wind turbines in the 3.1 megawatt class with standard blades were selling for 2 million a stick, heavy duty hubs and extended blades 2.5 million a stick these are installed prices minus and acquisition. You are correct though in that windmills are highly subsidized to the tune of about 50%. I used contract to move the nacelle covers and propeller hubs for GE.
 
I live in Oklahoma and have 6,000 gallons of cistern capacity and catch every drop of rain that comes off my roof and have done so for 16 years, with no water bill.

If you live in a rural area you probably can get away with it.
 
I live in Oklahoma- who told you that? It is perfectly legal to catch rainwater for use around the residence in SW Oklahoma, the City of Lawton just finished a rain barrel campaign. Farmers and ranchers have been encouraged to dig more ponds to hold run-off on their lands- some paid for with tax payer money.

I got it from my local paper.
 
Saw this elsewhere and like there it lacks details. It's certain to rile many as written, but without all the facts it's rhetorical to judge. For example it is my understanding she doesn't use city water but collects rain water which I do as well where I live now. However I don't live near any city and she is in one or so I'm told. So when there is a fire at her house, and her rain water is insufficient to put it out and the fire truck opens up a hydrant....she should not have paid for the water lines and all?

The fire hydrants aren't connected to her house and their installation and maintenance are paid for by her taxes, not water bills.
 
I will give her this, she is pretty tough living in that house pictured with no electricity and thus no AC in Florida. I have always thought it would be cool living off the grid, or having an off the grid weekend cabin, but it sure would not be in Florida or the deep south.

She's got electricity - solar panels.
 
If one is living off the grid, so to speak, then one cannot live on it while doing so.

The article does say that the code enforcement people didn't enter her home; she'll get her day in court. If she simply chooses not to use city water, I'd support her right to that. Many people don't drink tap water. If she has functioning plumbing in her home, I'd support her right to do as she chooses. And the town, if they think she's guilty of theft of services for using the sewer system, had better change the way it charges for it. Same for water service. One should not be able to simply shut off their water and avoid paying for the infrastructure. (Our town, for instances, charges sewer usage by a formula taking into account water usage.)

If she's pooping in buckets and throwing it in the backyard? She loses. Outside of that sanitary/safety concern, I think she has a right to live as she chooses. I think a judge will probably agree with her.

That last point first, there are composting toilets (legal in every jurisdiction), and incinerating toilets that run on either electricity or propane (also legal in every jurisdiction). And I disagree, one should be able to refuse any city or town services they can provide themselves. Anything less is the total antithesis of America.
 
Back
Top Bottom