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The NSA's Reach Might Be Even Bigger Than We Thought

jamesrage said:
This is why I support a anti-spying amendment(which would also applies to companies as well) to supplement the 4th amendment. But it would probably be easier to strip funding from the NSA than to enact another amendment.
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We have an anti-spy amendment, we need a court that opens a can of whoopass everytime the President does **** like this, or anyone else for that matter.
 
American said:
We have an anti-spy amendment, we need a court that opens a can of whoopass everytime the President does **** like this, or anyone else for that matter.
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Except no court with any understanding of these things would do that. So here we are. Half of the ignorant crying foul, half of the ignorant accepting it, and the knowledgeable saying "yeah, this is good".

All this talk about kicking people out or putting other people in charge or whatever does nothing except for changing who the knowledgeable are. They're still going to say the same thing and the knowledgeable are going to be in charge sooner or later no matter what. So here we are...some of the powerless (ignorant) always raging against the powerful (knowledgeable). Almost leftist in nature, when you think about it.
 
Ikari said:
I asked of OldWorld as his argument was that things are secret and need to remain secret but then tried to claim knowledge of the aggregate system. To which, I asked him how he could know if things are secret and need to be secret. It's called reading, you may want to try it out.
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You can babble on at the fingertips all day long. You asked a question, it was answered. Time to move on.
 
Jim Sensenbrenner is not ignorant on the subject of intelligence. Check out his bio. He says for the constitution and for the economy, "GENUINE" reform must take place at the NSA. That's no small warning. Only anti-Americans and partisan NSA employees would oppose that.
 
Arbo said:
You can babble on at the fingertips all day long. You asked a question, it was answered. Time to move on.
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I asked a question to not you based on a conversation I was having with not you. You popped in and took things out of context so you can make a post that had no substance or relevance. If you want to participate, at least read and understand what you are responding to.
 
Ikari said:
I asked a question to not you based on a conversation I was having with not you. You popped in and took things out of context so you can make a post that had no substance or relevance. If you want to participate, at least read and understand what you are responding to.
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It was understood perfectly. That you did not like the reality of the answer is your own issue.
 
 
 
Montecresto said:
Good links, though he's been provided with plenty, it won't seem to matter.
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None of it contains a story of a single 'innocent' american being abused by the system.
 
Yes I understand you want names, laughable.
 
Montecresto said:
Yes I understand you want names, laughable.
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Laughable? Well, if it happens and innocent people get swept up and abused, certainly there is a journalist that has told their story, thus there should be a name. In a nation of over 300 million people, it shouldn't be hard to find one, should it? If this is so prevalent and happens daily that is.
 
Millions of America's personal data is being copied and stored. Your not going to see a names list.
 
One doesn't need to. It's quite out in the open. It's not like this cats still in the bag dude, which perplexes the mind and rattles the senses, that there would be those among us playing pretend, ok sure.
 
Well, just cary on with the 'they are out to get me' fantasy then.
 
joko104 said:
It's complicated. There was an instance when they (FBI) wanted access to my wife's business computers because 1 person involved in a terrorist plot to blow up a subway has communicated with her company and visited one of the websites. If they find one suspect, they try to track anyone else who might be involved via internet emails, internet searches and phone records. In this instance, they had a list of names and wanted to know if any of them also has communicated with her company via email or had made any purchases.

She refused access, but agreed to do the search herself. After some huffing and puffing, they agreed. 1 name did match a sale of a certain chemical of concern her company sold. It was one compound for the device they were attempting to make. Ultimately, 4 people were convicted of a plot to blow up a subway.

It appears the government USUALLY does not advertise such plots to not cause copycats nor divulge their methods.

Given the massive flow of information, using computers to, in a sense, watch and read everything is a double edged sword. It is a huge violation of privacy, but it also seems to be working. So where is the middle ground between citizen's rights and the government protecting our country? That is not a simple question. We are a very vulnerable society.
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I agree with some of your points. But with the NSA spying our international allies, that is a little much for me. I also think this spying can be used for other methods, like ensure there is no revolt of the people when the people are ready to revolt. And thirdly, with the new healthcare reform and digital records, they will be able to get anybody's health information if they so desire.

And, considering what they do is covertly, even if we were to restrict their power through legislation, they could do it anyways. Finally, technology is only going to get more advanced. I'm pretty sure if a NSA agent wanted to, at the computer, follow an individual and listen to absolutely everything they are saying, including the entire phone conversation if there is one. And, they could peer inside buildings while you are talking.

Like in the movie V for Vandetta, they are listening in on anything that has to do with a revolt. To me, this is bothersome. Eventually when the masses want an entire new government (which you would think would be now) the government will be able to strike before anything is organized. These practices are ensuring the government of its power over the people.
 
ecofarm said:
That's awfully hysterical for an article of "could be". Do you always base outrage on speculations?

One minute it's "Iran could be developing a nuke" and all evidence is denied. The next minute it's "the NSA could be investigating many people" and no evidence is required for outrage. Odd. It's enough to wonder if the outrage is rational or just agenda-driven nonsense.
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Could? It's already been proven that the NSA has nabbed millions of peoples phone records just from Verizon alone.
 
Kal'Stang said:
What business is it of ANYONE's?
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I love that argument. It's like telling somebody critical of Washington policy, if you don't like the way things are done, why don't you move to a different country. Obviously it's not anyone's business, why some are defending it is really bizarre.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Could? It's already been proven that the NSA has nabbed millions of peoples phone records just from Verizon alone.
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Do you not get that this is a matter of scale? There is no evidence for the claim in the OP article. You're ok with that?
 
Which totally ignores his post, 143.
 
Montecresto said:
Which totally ignores his post, 143.
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You just don't quit eh?

When you get some fine fine examples of actual citizens being abused by this system, let us know. Until then, no point rehashing how stupid your beliefs are or that you have yet to provide a single data point. Bye.
 
Arbo said:
You just don't quit eh?

When you get some fine fine examples of actual citizens being abused by this system, let us know. Until then, no point rehashing how stupid your beliefs are or that you have yet to provide a single data point. Bye.
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You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, bye.
 
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