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Thread: The NSA's Reach Might Be Even Bigger Than We Thought

  1. #231
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    Re: The NSA's Reach Might Be Even Bigger Than We Thought

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    And no one can argue with someone else's imagination, so it becomes a nonissue. Either use some verifiable facts or don't bother. Because if someone with zero knowledge of intelligence is going to claim that I'm ignorant...well, they're always gonna lose, because all their argument is doing is pointing out that they're extremely LESS knowledgeable.
    You have no personal knowledge of their current actions. Well...none beyond what Snowden has released. Do you deny this?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: The NSA's Reach Might Be Even Bigger Than We Thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    You have no personal knowledge of their current actions. Well...none beyond what Snowden has released. Do you deny this?
    lol yes, I do. I highly doubt programs that have been underway for decades just closed up shop after I left. Especially considering I still have friends that work in those places. Hmm...I wonder what they do.

    So if you're calling me ignorant, all you're doing is calling yourself even more ignorant. And arguing about what you can imagine they may be doing in your worst nightmares. I'm uninterested in arguing about whether or not it's okay that they do that which you're horrified that they might be doing. That's nonsensical.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: The NSA's Reach Might Be Even Bigger Than We Thought

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Which begs the question of what's essential and what's temporary. I didn't know it was essential that the US not store the metadata that phone companies have. That's an interesting take.
    Its called privacy. Its called needing a valid warrant to gather that information. It is not so essential that the government has an abritrary right to even gather that private data in the first place without just cause of all those people who they gathered data on being terrorists.

    Both you and I know that our rights are based on individuality. That no individual's rights can be compromised without just cause. You and I also know that millions of people who they gathered that data on are NOT terrorists. As such they did not have legal just cause to gather that data. It would be one thing if they compiled a metadata base on criminals/terrorists. But they didn't. That is a fact.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  4. #234
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    Re: The NSA's Reach Might Be Even Bigger Than We Thought

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    lol yes, I do. I highly doubt programs that have been underway for decades just closed up shop after I left. Especially considering I still have friends that work in those places. Hmm...I wonder what they do.
    A lot has changed just in the past 4 years in regards to how our government is acting....or at the very least its being brought more into the light thanks to people like Snowden... And if your friends are telling you everything then they are violating their own oaths. Are you making that claim?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    So if you're calling me ignorant, all you're doing is calling yourself even more ignorant. And arguing about what you can imagine they may be doing in your worst nightmares. I'm uninterested in arguing about whether or not it's okay that they do that which you're horrified that they might be doing. That's nonsensical.
    Yes, I am calling you ignorant of what the NSA is doing. And biased to boot. Unless your friends are violating their oaths like Snowden did then you are indeed just as ignorant as me on their current actions.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: The NSA's Reach Might Be Even Bigger Than We Thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Its called privacy. Its called needing a valid warrant to gather that information. It is not so essential that the government has an abritrary right to even gather that private data in the first place without just cause of all those people who they gathered data on being terrorists.
    So now privacy is an essential liberty? Funny how they didn't use that word in even the constitution. Why is that data private? The way your UE uses an IMEI and IMSI to connect through a BTS to MSC, using abis/mobis links and whatnot back down to another IMEI and IMSI, across many different company's infrastructures, using various other company's software and hardware is your private data? No, the courts disagree. They agree with you that your conversation is yours (and the person you're conversing with), and that's that private. But they agree with me in that all of that that I listed previous to the conversation is not your private data. And whether it's an essential liberty or not is highly dubious.

    Both you and I know that our rights are based on individuality. That no individual's rights can be compromised without just cause. You and I also know that millions of people who they gathered that data on are NOT terrorists. As such they did not have legal just cause to gather that data. It would be one thing if they compiled a metadata base on criminals/terrorists. But they didn't. That is a fact.
    I don't think you have a right to cellular metadata, I'm sorry. That's not yours.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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  6. #236
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    Re: The NSA's Reach Might Be Even Bigger Than We Thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    A lot has changed just in the past 4 years in regards to how our government is acting....or at the very least its being brought more into the light thanks to people like Snowden... And if your friends are telling you everything then they are violating their own oaths. Are you making that claim?

    Yes, I am calling you ignorant of what the NSA is doing. And biased to boot. Unless your friends are violating their oaths like Snowden did then you are indeed just as ignorant as me on their current actions.
    Four years? lol I'm safely within the window. I'm making the claim that when someone says "Dude, remember that thing we used to have to do quarterly? Tom screwed that up so badly, it was hilarious. He was all flustered and ****, you should've seen it" I can imagine that they're not doing a completely different mission.

    So yes, you're going to have to deal with the fact that I know mountains more than you about this. If I'm ignorant? You're totally lost and have even less of a clue of what you're talking about. So I'm still doing much better in this conversation about what does and doesn't happen. You seem to have a horrible aversion to the truth. You simply don't want to hear it. I'm sure you're one of those people that doesn't believe anything that's disclosed that doesn't totally adhere to your view of intelligence agencies, aren't you? If it came out that the NSA used radio waves to give Fidel Castro a stroke, you'd be all "hmmm...plausible". It comes out that PRISM prevented a terrorist attack? "Nah, that's just what they want you to believe. STOP ATTACKING MY CIVIL LIBERTIES!"

    If you're just going to ignore anyone with any experience or knowledge, while depending on what you can imagine it happening, of course you can never be persuaded to think rationally. I mean...QED.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: The NSA's Reach Might Be Even Bigger Than We Thought

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    lol whatever fires you up. Continue to whine about something you have no proof of happening.
    lol, better than listening to someone with delusions of grandeur thinking he knows all the secrets of the NSA.

    Sorry that investigating claims and looking to keep government properly restrained sounds so radical to you, but seeing as I doubt your absolute knowledge of all NSA secrets, I'm going to go ahead and say we need to investigate and really look into what the NSA has been doing and is doing.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: The NSA's Reach Might Be Even Bigger Than We Thought

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    So now privacy is an essential liberty? Funny how they didn't use that word in even the constitution. Why is that data private?
    It constitutes my papers and effects. Clearly been protected.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: The NSA's Reach Might Be Even Bigger Than We Thought

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    lol whatever fires you up. Continue to whine about something you have no proof of happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    lol, better than listening to someone with delusions of grandeur thinking he knows all the secrets of the NSA.
    lol

    #1- I enjoy you admitting that you're making things up.
    #2- You think someone working for an intelligence agency is something "grand". Jesus, there's tens of thousands of people that do. It's not like I was an NFL player or something.

    Sorry that investigating claims and looking to keep government properly restrained sounds so radical to you, but seeing as I doubt your absolute knowledge of all NSA secrets, I'm going to go ahead and say we need to investigate and really look into what the NSA has been doing and is doing.
    You're investigating? lol you're accusing. There's a difference. Congress has oversight. Write your representatives.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: The NSA's Reach Might Be Even Bigger Than We Thought

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It constitutes my papers and effects. Clearly been protected.
    It's too bad the network infrastructure and programming is neither.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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