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Vietnam pursues policy to protect human rights [W:77]

Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Montecresto said:
A particular SCOTUS judge left room for the same by stating that we should avoid degenerating into dictatorship by avoiding this such unconstitutional activity. But with a very conservative lean and your perennial partisan positions, I wouldn't expect you'd acknowledge the sins of a republican president. Rah rah, your team.
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I understand Bush's justification, but I do agree that it opened the door for massive abuse, as we're seeung now.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

apdst said:
I understand Bush's justification, but I do agree that it opened the door for massive abuse, as we're seeung now.
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And I believe you open yourself to "understanding Bush's justification" because of your very conservative lean and the fact that Bush professed to be a conservative republican. Bush got away with it because of partisan support that would block holding him accountable, pissing off the left. Now we have Obama doing the same, and worse, as you have correctly observed, and similarly we have the left and very left understanding Obama's justification for worse behavior than Bush. And so, because of partisan support that would block holding him accountable, the right is pissed off. This is what partisan support does when opposed to constitutional support. And it makes some few of us very frustrated.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Chocolate said:
Vietnam pursues policy to protect human rights - Politics & Laws | Politics, Business, Economy, Society, Life, Sports - VietNam News - VietNam News
Vietnam is moving in the right direction and I am so so happy that they are working so hard to fix these things. (To be honest we were lacking some human rights)

I hope you don't mind me throwing out some news about vietnam Since I obviously follow it quite a bit It's really progressed quite well in quite a short time period maybe america can learn something from it? :p but probely not
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Is that link a Vietnamese website?
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Montecresto said:
And I believe you open yourself to "understanding Bush's justification" because of your very conservative lean and the fact that Bush professed to be a conservative republican. Bush got away with it because of partisan support that would block holding him accountable, pissing off the left. Now we have Obama doing the same, and worse, as you have correctly observed, and similarly we have the left and very left understanding Obama's justification for worse behavior than Bush. And so, because of partisan support that would block holding him accountable, the right is pissed off. This is what partisan support does when opposed to constitutional support. And it makes some few of us very frustrated.
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The partisanship started when the Clinton loaded FISA court turned down 21 warrants in the 12 months post 9/11. Bush waa listening to phone calls between The United States and places like Pakistan. Obama's listening to everybody
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Montecresto said:
And I believe you open yourself to "understanding Bush's justification" because of your very conservative lean and the fact that Bush professed to be a conservative republican. Bush got away with it because of partisan support that would block holding him accountable, pissing off the left. Now we have Obama doing the same, and worse, as you have correctly observed, and similarly we have the left and very left understanding Obama's justification for worse behavior than Bush. And so, because of partisan support that would block holding him accountable, the right is pissed off. This is what partisan support does when opposed to constitutional support. And it makes some few of us very frustrated.
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As is the way in Washington and the die hards on both sides, it all depends on whom and what party the president is from. When a president is from my party does something, it if perfectly alright and I will defend it to the max. When a president from the other party does the same thing, it is wrong and perhaps evil and I want him prosecuted or impeached for doing it.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

apdst said:
The partisanship started when the Clinton loaded FISA court turned down 21 warrants in the 12 months post 9/11. Bush waa listening to phone calls between The United States and places like Pakistan. Obama's listening to everybody
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It was still warrantless and drew the ire of the Supreme Court justice noted prior. And furthermore what kind of a defense is it that what Obama's doing is worse? Would you let anybody get away with that. These are the kinds of things that have to be nipped in the bud which is precisely what O'Conner was saying. Please stop defending Bush on this, we've had no defendable presidents in a long time. Presidents think that if they do it (yeah, IT, anything) it's not illegal. Ask Richard Nixon, well, you know what I mean.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Montecresto said:
It was still warrantless and drew the ire of the Supreme Court justice noted prior. And furthermore what kind of a defense is it that what Obama's doing is worse? Would you let anybody get away with that. These are the kinds of things that have to be nipped in the bud which is precisely what O'Conner was saying. Please stop defending Bush on this, we've had no defendable presidents in a long time. Presidents think that if they do it (yeah, IT, anything) it's not illegal. Ask Richard Nixon, well, you know what I mean.
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I'm not defending what Bush did. Don't let your Liberal lean cause you to interpret anything less than, "he lied about Iraq", "9/11 was an inside job", "he was AWOL", as defending him. I'm telling you why he did what he did; never once condoned it.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Annnd my thread about the positive steps that gets shot down by paranoid idiots who know nothing about vietnam, and an argument about what a past president did was okay.... which as far as I am aware I didnt post ANYTHING about wire tapping and if thats okay or not.

Oh and by the way idiots like apdst that refuses to see anything a communist government do was a good thing I'd like to tell you as a person who lived nearly all of my life there, me and the majority of people are happy with the changes and they have been getting better and better. Are you just mad that you lost the war? or are you seriously so full of hate you ignore any and all good vietnam does?
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

American said:
Is that link a Vietnamese website?
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Yeah it is. hence why it's not mainstream media, should I ignore anything Fox says? or NBC? because they are american media? No. the media openly goes against the government at times. these are real changes that are giving the country real benifits it's not just propoganda ~born and raised in vietnam~
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

apdst said:
I understand Bush's justification, but I do agree that it opened the door for massive abuse, as we're seeung now.
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Could you get off this thread? last I checked this is not under "American" politics" and bush/obama have nothing to do with the good vietnam has been doing in the past 20 years
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

apdst said:
All I hear is how wonderful the Vietnamese Communists are; norhing about their own atrocities and certainly no mention that the Vietnames Communists helped the Khmer Rouge get cranked up.

Putring Vietnam on the UN Human Rights Council is a joke.
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The steady improvements to human rights in Viet Nam shows that a policy of "engage and influence" nearly always works better than the "isolate, threaten and sanction" strategy used with Cuba.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Chocolate said:
Could you get off this thread? last I checked this is not under "American" politics" and bush/obama have nothing to do with the good vietnam has been doing in the past 20 years
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The good? :lamo
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Hard Truth said:
The steady improvements to human rights in Viet Nam shows that a policy of "engage and influence" nearly always works better than the "isolate, threaten and sanction" strategy used with Cuba.
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There's no evidence that Vietnam is improving human rights.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Chocolate said:
yeah go wrap yourself in that american flag of yours and enjoy your ignorance
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So, how many people are imprisoned in Vietnam for political crines against the party?
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

apdst said:
There's no evidence that Vietnam is improving human rights.
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The scoring by Freedom House shows that their human rights record remains poor, but it has improved over the years. (although not as much as I expected) It is not on their list of the sixteen worst countries and has a better score than Cuba.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

apdst said:
There's no evidence that Vietnam is improving human rights.
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I assume my word means nothing ? since I'm an evil brainwashed citizen of vietnam? :/
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Chocolate said:
I assume my word means nothing ? since I'm an evil brainwashed citizen of vietnam? :/
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There are North Koreans that think North Korea is a great place to live, too.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

apdst said:
There are North Koreans that think North Korea is a great place to live, too.
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I think you know nothing about asia. North Koreas do not think it's a great place to live and often are murdered for trying to flee. most of the countrys next to NK help people escaping. do you litterally know nothing about asia?
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Chocolate said:
I think you know nothing about asia. North Koreas do not think it's a great place to live and often are murdered for trying to flee. most of the countrys next to NK help people escaping. do you litterally know nothing about asia?
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It's full of commie pigs. I know that.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Chocolate said:
Wow thats really interesting! once I get some time i'll look into this and give you the viewpoint from someone who lived in vietnam untill recently! but I whole heartedly disagree with the idea that they are doing good in the way of human rights to get in good with america. they have been moving forward for a very long time, when it comes to government policys and laws. perhaps the pressure from china is increasing this effort. But why do you just assume a country is doing right by it's people and strengthing it's economy is to get in good with america? it's a wee bit offensive lol
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I agree with you that VietNam's progress toward increasing human rights has anything to do with trying to appease America. VietNam and America didn't even have diplomatic relations for quite a while, so I have been extremely pleased over the past couple of decades to see normal relations between VietNam and America beginning to thaw and even grow friendly.

I've been privileged in my life to have met so many VietNamese refugees from shortly after the war, people who are friendly, hard-working, humble and enduring. I came to care very much for many of them. Still, as much as these people embraced and flourished in their new home, they still had friends and family back in VietNam, and their hearts ached because they dared not return to visit them. That is no longer the case, and I for one am very happy about the warm relationship between our two countries now, and the ability for VietNamese-Americans to return to their homeland to visit family and friends. VietNam's progress over the past nearly 4 decades has led to this positive outcome, and I hope our two nations will continue to be friends and allies.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Risky Thicket said:
My first Buddhist teacher was a monk who had immigrated to the US after having spent years in a re-education camp and then a year in a refugee camp in Thailand. He suffered greatly. He damn sure didn't like the communists, but he still loved the Vietnamese people.

As you well know, the Vietnamese people have been abused, occupied, controlled and shat upon for centuries. It is a testament to the strength of character of the Vietnamese people that they have persevered. Communism isn't working that well anywhere and Vietnam is no exception. I seriously doubt that anything close to the majority in the north ever wanted communism.

Once I was way out in the back of somewhere in a little village whose name escapes me now. With the assistance of a Vietnamese interpreter I talked for a bit with what turned out to be a very wise village elder. Being young and not yet worldly I asked the old man if he support Ho Chi. After thinking to himself what a stupid question it was coming from an American kid holding a gun he could have said, "No, we love America and freedom" and all that bull**** most anyone would say to a conquering army. But he didn't say that. He pointed off in one direction and said that in that field is where they planted their rice and in another direction is where they travel to get their salt and where they go to catch their fish. He said that before Americans came there were the French and the village went to the same field to plant their rice and the same place to find salt and the same place to catch their fish. Before that is was the Japanese who came and the village still got there rice and their salt and their fish from the same places. Before that it was the Chinese who occupied their country and the villagers got their fish and salt and rice from the same places. He said, "We support the Americans, but after you leave the communists will come. We will still get our fish and rice and salt from the same places."

I was stunned speechless. What a grand lesson I had learned from this uneducated old man in some tiny remote village. I have never forgotten it.

Asians have a timeless perspective of things that Westerners find difficult to understand. Vietnamese have faced atrocities from many different governments. We can argue political philosophy of atrocities all day. What was in the past is not what is today nor will what is today be what is in the future. The people who died at My Lai are just as dead as the villagers who were slaughtered by the VC or the NVA. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it.
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Wow. Bravo. Just... Bravo! A seriously excellent post.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Chocolate said:
I don't know how to react to you calling me a pig.....
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Don't react at all. Certain people here will deliberately bait and insult hoping to anger someone else into breaking the rules. Simply ignore people you see are not interested in discussing your topic, but only want to bring in non-related topics and hostility. You are not required to respond to such nonsense, so don't!! :)
 
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