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Vietnam pursues policy to protect human rights [W:77]

Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

I read a book once written by a man in South Vietnam that was put into a reeducation camp after America left. I can't remember the name of the book but believe me they were certainly not into human rights then.

My first Buddhist teacher was a monk who had immigrated to the US after having spent years in a re-education camp and then a year in a refugee camp in Thailand. He suffered greatly. He damn sure didn't like the communists, but he still loved the Vietnamese people.

As you well know, the Vietnamese people have been abused, occupied, controlled and shat upon for centuries. It is a testament to the strength of character of the Vietnamese people that they have persevered. Communism isn't working that well anywhere and Vietnam is no exception. I seriously doubt that anything close to the majority in the north ever wanted communism.

Once I was way out in the back of somewhere in a little village whose name escapes me now. With the assistance of a Vietnamese interpreter I talked for a bit with what turned out to be a very wise village elder. Being young and not yet worldly I asked the old man if he support Ho Chi. After thinking to himself what a stupid question it was coming from an American kid holding a gun he could have said, "No, we love America and freedom" and all that bull**** most anyone would say to a conquering army. But he didn't say that. He pointed off in one direction and said that in that field is where they planted their rice and in another direction is where they travel to get their salt and where they go to catch their fish. He said that before Americans came there were the French and the village went to the same field to plant their rice and the same place to find salt and the same place to catch their fish. Before that is was the Japanese who came and the village still got there rice and their salt and their fish from the same places. Before that it was the Chinese who occupied their country and the villagers got their fish and salt and rice from the same places. He said, "We support the Americans, but after you leave the communists will come. We will still get our fish and rice and salt from the same places."

I was stunned speechless. What a grand lesson I had learned from this uneducated old man in some tiny remote village. I have never forgotten it.

Asians have a timeless perspective of things that Westerners find difficult to understand. Vietnamese have faced atrocities from many different governments. We can argue political philosophy of atrocities all day. What was in the past is not what is today nor will what is today be what is in the future. The people who died at My Lai are just as dead as the villagers who were slaughtered by the VC or the NVA. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

I don't quite follow? why would it be against peoples interests to distrupt this kind of growth?

And is vietnam mostly irrelivent to most americans here ? just curious if we have made any impact on the global stage in your opinions

Given your neighbor to the North, the recent troubles with your neighbor to the West, and our increasing trade ties, I don't think Vietnam is irrelevant at all. If this step is backed by real enforcement of those protections, then that is excellent.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

I meant does vietnam have any impact on the global stage from your viewpoint, and I don't think all the changes in the country are making it more democractic nearly every election I have seen and voted in are democratic, fair, lawful and done in a very safe manner. it's considered a successes for the people.

It seems that little by little Hanoi is figuring out that if they want full acceptance in the international trade community they need to adjust some of their policies. It is, however, kind of sad that it took nearly 40 years for them to figure out that "reeducation camps" are not a great way to stimulate an economy.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

By that logic, we should forgive the Nazis as well.

There long dead, gone. Feel free to hate them all you want, no big thing. But I prefer to live in today and not yesterday. What has today's Vietnam done to make them our enemy? To cause us to hate them? Nothing really outside of moving toward Capitalism while we steadily move the other way. I have nothing against Vietnam's present day leaders because they aren't yesterdays leaders and I sure do not have anything against the Vietnamese people.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

There long dead, gone. Feel free to hate them all you want, no big thing. But I prefer to live in today and not yesterday. What has today's Vietnam done to make them our enemy? To cause us to hate them? Nothing really outside of moving toward Capitalism while we steadily move the other way. I have nothing against Vietnam's present day leaders because they aren't yesterdays leaders and I sure do not have anything against the Vietnamese people.

Communist oppression is aluve and well...

Hundreds of Political Prisoners in Vietnam Jails | DC
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights


So what is your solution? Just ignore the country as if they didn't exist as we did until the late 90's? What did that accomplish? It sure wasn't helping free those prisoners. Perhaps closer and friendlier relations might. One never knows but we do know what didn't work and perhaps it was time to try something new. I know in the geopolitical situation in that part of the world it is much better for the U.S. to have Vietnam as an ally than as an enemy. Having friends is always better than having enemies. Then perhaps through discussions with the new leaders we can come to an accord on the prisoners and get them set free. Doing nothing or what we had been doing only lets them languish in their prison cells.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

So what is your solution? Just ignore the country as if they didn't exist as we did until the late 90's? What did that accomplish? It sure wasn't helping free those prisoners. Perhaps closer and friendlier relations might. One never knows but we do know what didn't work and perhaps it was time to try something new. I know in the geopolitical situation in that part of the world it is much better for the U.S. to have Vietnam as an ally than as an enemy. Having friends is always better than having enemies. Then perhaps through discussions with the new leaders we can come to an accord on the prisoners and get them set free. Doing nothing or what we had been doing only lets them languish in their prison cells.

The eradication of Communism. It's not rocket science
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

The eradication of Communism. It's not rocket science

You want to eradicate all communism...? that seems just as extreme if not more extreme then having political prisoners years ago. do you wish to eradicate me as well? My country does NOT have the best background in the world no. but I posted this because it is making huge steps to become something more, when I was living in my country me and the majority of the people I know were happy with the current state of things and the way things were going. Communism is not evil not at all but many of the world leaders esp russia twisted it and made it seem evil.
typically, the party that benefits simply consumes the benefit instead of turning it into production; in russia that is clear as day and it's one of the reasons it failed. Vietnam is not just enjoying the benefits they are really really making efforts to better our lives and do good on the world stage

And also you obviously only have a very simple idea of what is ACTUALLY going on and the way our government works. which I don't hate you for I am confused about this "Democracy" which sounds more like a democratic republic when people explain it to me
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

The eradication of Communism. It's not rocket science

Actually we may be closer to communism than Vietnam as they continue to move away from it.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

You want to eradicate all communism...? that seems just as extreme if not more extreme then having political prisoners years ago. do you wish to eradicate me as well? My country does NOT have the best background in the world no. but I posted this because it is making huge steps to become something more, when I was living in my country me and the majority of the people I know were happy with the current state of things and the way things were going. Communism is not evil not at all but many of the world leaders esp russia twisted it and made it seem evil.
typically, the party that benefits simply consumes the benefit instead of turning it into production; in russia that is clear as day and it's one of the reasons it failed. Vietnam is not just enjoying the benefits they are really really making efforts to better our lives and do good on the world stage

And also you obviously only have a very simple idea of what is ACTUALLY going on and the way our government works. which I don't hate you for I am confused about this "Democracy" which sounds more like a democratic republic when people explain it to me

What you brought us in the op appears to be a positive development.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Actually we may be closer to communism than Vietnam as they continue to move away from it.

We are no near a classes society
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

We are no near a classes society

We are definitely a divided society where our political parties use a divide and conquer strategy to win elections. They do use class warfare in their causes in an attempt to divide us by class and by race and by religion and by social status and by rural and urban and on and on.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

You want to eradicate all communism...? that seems just as extreme if not more extreme then having political prisoners years ago. do you wish to eradicate me as well? My country does NOT have the best background in the world no. but I posted this because it is making huge steps to become something more, when I was living in my country me and the majority of the people I know were happy with the current state of things and the way things were going. Communism is not evil not at all but many of the world leaders esp russia twisted it and made it seem evil.
typically, the party that benefits simply consumes the benefit instead of turning it into production; in russia that is clear as day and it's one of the reasons it failed. Vietnam is not just enjoying the benefits they are really really making efforts to better our lives and do good on the world stage

And also you obviously only have a very simple idea of what is ACTUALLY going on and the way our government works. which I don't hate you for I am confused about this "Democracy" which sounds more like a democratic republic when people explain it to me

Pravda said everything was great in the USSR, too.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Actually we may be closer to communism than Vietnam as they continue to move away from it.

We are headed that way with our Communist president.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

We are headed that way with our Communist president.

This certainly includes Obama but the trend precedes him and will only get worse after him and its all the fault of partisans.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

This certainly includes Obama but the trend precedes him and will only get worse after him and its all the fault of partisans.

No, this is our first communist president.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Another partisan statement. Communists you know are about restricting liberties (amongst other nasty things) and violating human rights. One more time, a Reagan nominee for SCOTUS, Sandra Day O'Conner said of Bush's warrantless (read: illegal) wiretapping equated to the US degenerating into dictatorship. Obama is Bush on steroids, true. But this trend is only going to worsen unless partisans stop blindly supporting their party and be constitutionalists and Americans, first!
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Another partisan statement. Communists you know are about restricting liberties (amongst other nasty things) and violating human rights. One more time, a Reagan nominee for SCOTUS, Sandra Day O'Conner said of Bush's warrantless (read: illegal) wiretapping equated to the US degenerating into dictatorship. Obama is Bush on steroids, true. But this trend is only going to worsen unless partisans stop blindly supporting their party and be constitutionalists and Americans, first!

Bush tapped OVERSEAS phone calls, TO and FROM terrorist sponsoring countries. Let's at least stick to the facts.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Bush tapped OVERSEAS phone calls, TO and FROM terrorist sponsoring countries. Let's at least stick to the facts.

That's suppose to make illegal wire taps ok?
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Nope! Just clarifying the facts.

Your clarification is not at odds with what I posted, that's good, and we agree that your clarification doesn't excuse Bush's illegal wire taps, and that's better.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

Your clarification is not at odds with what I posted, that's good, and we agree that your clarification doesn't excuse Bush's illegal wire taps, and that's better.

You left room for the assumprion that Bush was illegally wire tapping anyone. What was doing was bypassing the FISA court because the judges stopped approving warrants.
 
Re: Vietnam Protecting human rights

You left room for the assumprion that Bush was illegally wire tapping anyone. What was doing was bypassing the FISA court because the judges stopped approving warrants.

A particular SCOTUS judge left room for the same by stating that we should avoid degenerating into dictatorship by avoiding this such unconstitutional activity. But with a very conservative lean and your perennial partisan positions, I wouldn't expect you'd acknowledge the sins of a republican president. Rah rah, your team.
 
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