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China and Japan would be foolish to war over "rocks" Sha Zukang

Montecresto

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Too bad China is foolish enough to do that.
 
This won't happen. China nor Japan are definitely not foolish enough to create an armed conflict over this. Anyone who is familiar with cold war style diplomacy otherwise known as brinkmanship should be able to predict how this will generally pan out.
 
This won't happen. China nor Japan are definitely not foolish enough to create an armed conflict over this. Anyone who is familiar with cold war style diplomacy otherwise known as brinkmanship should be able to predict how this will generally pan out.

The thing is, there is far more than just those "rocks" at issue. China's military spending has been on steroids for the last decade or so and oil is big factor for the South China Sea, which many nations in the region lay claim to. Including Haliburton, apparently.
 
The thing is, there is far more than just those "rocks" at issue. China's military spending has been on steroids for the last decade or so and oil is big factor for the South China Sea, which many nations in the region lay claim to. Including Haliburton, apparently.

Well if I were China that would seem like a fairly good idea when considering their largest rivals are years ahead in military technology. Despite that however, I don't really see China threatening Japan seriously. Japan is way to large of a risk considering their economic importance and close alliance to the U.S.

Also the proposed airspace disputed is over the East China Sea. The South China Sea is indeed disputed by countries such as Thailand, Vietnam, China and Indonesia, but it is not the point of contention here.
 
Well if I were China that would seem like a fairly good idea when considering their largest rivals are years ahead in military technology. Despite that however, I don't really see China threatening Japan seriously. Japan is way to large of a risk considering their economic importance and close alliance to the U.S.

Also the proposed airspace disputed is over the East China Sea. The South China Sea is indeed disputed by countries such as Thailand, Vietnam, China and Indonesia, but it is not the point of contention here.

Oh sure, I understand the difference between the east and South China Sea. My point is just that China is preparing for war and its not just about the "rocks" in the op.
 
Oh sure, I understand the difference between the east and South China Sea. My point is just that China is preparing for war and its not just about the "rocks" in the op.

I totally disagree. China had been on a streak of improving it's relations throughout the world. They have increased foreign trade substantially over the past 20 years.

What this is about is China asserting itself in its own backyard. Similar to America's attempts to assert it's dominance in the western hemisphere in the late 19th century.
 
I totally disagree. China had been on a streak of improving it's relations throughout the world. They have increased foreign trade substantially over the past 20 years.

What this is about is China asserting itself in its own backyard. Similar to America's attempts to assert it's dominance in the western hemisphere in the late 19th century.

President Obama went to Australia in Nov. 2011 and announced he would be stationing the Marines there and told east Asia, this is to let you know that the US is in town just incase China starts any ****. The Chinese president responded by telling his commanders to prepare for war. The US is building the largest military base EVER in Guam and in Dec. following Obama's announcement, Leon Panetta announced that the Pentagon would be moving 60% of its assets to the WestPac. What's developing in that region is no small thing.
 
The thing is, there is far more than just those "rocks" at issue. China's military spending has been on steroids for the last decade or so and oil is big factor for the South China Sea, which many nations in the region lay claim to. Including Haliburton, apparently.

Only because their economy has been on steroids.

Their military spending as a % of GDP has remained relatively constant - and is WAY below America's and Russia's and is noticeably below such 'peaceful' countries as G.B., France and India.

List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

File:China published military budget by percent of GNP.tiff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Only because their economy has been on steroids.

Their military spending as a % of GDP has remained relatively constant - and is WAY below America's, Japan's, Russia's and many other major world powers.

List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

File:China published military budget by percent of GNP.tiff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No country spends more than China on military save the US. And they aren't done, just recently they announced that their carrier group is comparable to the US. Not saying too much, but if the US had to defend Japan against China it won't be anything like fighting the other countries we've been kicking around over the last few decades.
 
China is not trying to start a war.
 
Of course they're not. They have a defensive military.
 
President Obama went to Australia in Nov. 2011 and announced he would be stationing the Marines there and told east Asia, this is to let you know that the US is in town just incase China starts any ****. The Chinese president responded by telling his commanders to prepare for war. The US is building the largest military base EVER in Guam and in Dec. following Obama's announcement, Leon Panetta announced that the Pentagon would be moving 60% of its assets to the WestPac. What's developing in that region is no small thing.

Putting one Marine rifle battalion in Australia, Obama is a military genius.

And the biggest "military base ever" isn't being built on Guam. Japan issued it's eviction notice to Marine grunts of the 3rd Mar. Div. and it looks like they have to be billeted on Guam, not having any room for conducting training. Camp Pendleton is larger than the entire island of Guam.

BTW: The reason why 1,200 Marines are being billited in Austrailia is because there's no room for them on Guam.

But liberals in Congress have warned us that if we put to many Marines on Guam, that Guam would flip over and capsize. :eek:

 
Bigger than WWII, bwuahahahahahahah China couldn't even put together enough navy to outdo Normandy.
 
President Obama went to Australia in Nov. 2011 and announced he would be stationing the Marines there and told east Asia, this is to let you know that the US is in town just incase China starts any ****. The Chinese president responded by telling his commanders to prepare for war. The US is building the largest military base EVER in Guam and in Dec. following Obama's announcement, Leon Panetta announced that the Pentagon would be moving 60% of its assets to the WestPac. What's developing in that region is no small thing.

These are efforts to reinforce American presence in East Asia in response to China's growing regional power. This is exactly what I have been saying.

This is modern diplomacy. It's all about potential bargaining and outcome. There is not going to be a war, these are classic elements of brinkmanship diplomacy. Please look at negotiations and conflicts between the U.S. and the Soviet Union to understand the creation of these contentions and how they are resolved.
 
No country spends more than China on military save the US. And they aren't done, just recently they announced that their carrier group is comparable to the US. Not saying too much, but if the US had to defend Japan against China it won't be anything like fighting the other countries we've been kicking around over the last few decades.

But the % of GDP is how you judge how aggressive they are spending, not the total.

And the Chinese have only one aircraft carrier - the Liaoning.

Chinese aircraft carrier Liaoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's a refitted ex-Soviet ship that is over 25 years old and is no match for an American carrier.
 
Putting one Marine rifle battalion in Australia, Obama is a military genius.

And the biggest "military base ever" isn't being built on Guam. Japan issued it's eviction notice to Marine grunts of the 3rd Mar. Div. and it looks like they have to be billeted on Guam, not having any room for conducting training. Camp Pendleton is larger than the entire island of Guam.

BTW: The reason why 1,200 Marines are being billited in Austrailia is because there's no room for them on Guam.

But liberals in Congress have warned us that if we put to many Marines on Guam, that Guam would flip over and capsize. :eek:



Local residents' concerns, however, have been sidelined by the US-China strategic competition. China has significantly expanded its fleet during the past decade, seeking to deter the US from intervening militarily in any future conflict over Taiwan, which Beijing claims as its own, and to project power across disputed territories in the gas and oil-rich South China Sea.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...8bn-super-base-on-Pacific-island-of-Guam.html
 
Moreover, there's a lot of different kinds of pressures that are below the surface. There's rumblings in Japan for "taking back" their military autonomy- or at least changing the security agreement to something more in line with what the ROK and the US share. Without question, China doesn't want this. So consider what China does in the background to keep Japan's security intertwined with the US: if they push to a point where the Japanese people are (figuratively) up in arms, they must trust that the US can "handle". If the US can't, and the Japanese people are angry, China will have created a new East Asian military competitor- something they certainly want to avoid.

It's complicated- as the tapestry of international relations always is.
 
Nothing you're posting is refuting anything that anyone said.
 
It's what the former Chinese ambassador to the UN has said.
 
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