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Thread: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticism

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    Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticism

    Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia

    Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticism

    Mi-17 helicopter units are being sold by Russia to the United States in a move that has drawn criticism. The M-17 helicopters will be deployed to the Afghan army.
    WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. military officials insisted a top-secret Pentagon study proved the need to buy Russian helicopters for Afghanistan’s security forces. But the study actually recommended an American-made rotorcraft, according to unclassified excerpts obtained by The Associated Press.
    The excerpts show the U.S. Army’s workhorse Chinook, built by Boeing Co. in Pennsylvania, was “the most cost-effective single platform type fleet for the Afghan Air Force over a 20-year” period.
    The finding has triggered allegations the Defense Department misled members of Congress and improperly cut U.S. companies out of competing for a contract that has swelled to more than $1 billion.
    More than two years since DOD announced it was acquiring Russian Mi-17 helicopters, a veil of secrecy still obscures the pact despite its high-dollar value, the potential for fraud and waste, and accusations the Pentagon muffled important information.

    - - - - -

    USA buying Russian helicopters. Whatjathink?

    I think it sucks. The cost isn't JUST the dollar costs, but where those dollars go. If American made, those dollars go here. If not, they go elsewhere. Paying unemployment and welfare to American workers while have Russia build systems we pay for? That's NUTS by every measure.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Gotta love the editorial comment in the middle of it:

    An extensive analysis of both helicopters concluded a refurbished Chinook would cost about 40 percent more overall to buy and maintain than the Russian helicopter, the senior defense official said.

    That is hard to fathom.

    Boeing executives informed congressional staff during a meeting held in late September that the cost of a refurbished CH-47D would be in the $12 million to $14 million range, according to a person knowledgeable about the discussion but not authorized to be identified as the source of the information.
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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    1) The Afghans are use to Soviet tech.
    2) Russian tech is Soviet tech.
    3) Russian tech is cheaper than American tech.
    4) The report seems to be bull**** made by Boeing.
    5) Repairing Russian tech is easier than American tech.. and cheaper.

    Saying that, I agree that US money should be use don US companies and jobs.. problem is that it would most likely cost the US tax payer much more due to the corruption in the US military.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    1) The Afghans are use to Soviet tech.
    2) Russian tech is Soviet tech.
    3) Russian tech is cheaper than American tech.
    4) The report seems to be bull**** made by Boeing.
    5) Repairing Russian tech is easier than American tech.. and cheaper.

    Saying that, I agree that US money should be use don US companies and jobs.. problem is that it would most likely cost the US tax payer much more due to the corruption in the US military.
    Yeah, I was about to say, but you beat me to it. There's far more expense associated with the proper maintenance of aircraft and proper training of crew that this decision makes sense for the Afghans. Of course, rather than the US military buying those aircraft and giving them to the Afghans, why not give the Afghans the money and let them buy them themselves? Or is that what's going on here?

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    1) The Afghans are use to Soviet tech.
    2) Russian tech is Soviet tech.
    3) Russian tech is cheaper than American tech.
    4) The report seems to be bull**** made by Boeing.
    5) Repairing Russian tech is easier than American tech.. and cheaper.

    Saying that, I agree that US money should be use don US companies and jobs.. problem is that it would most likely cost the US tax payer much more due to the corruption in the US military.
    In a rare move I'm going to agree with everything you said, because I happen to know something about this. What you're saying is precisely why they are getting this aircraft, and this is not news exactly.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    The thing is prolly bugged with all kinds of shut down viruses.

    Remember when America sold weapons to Saddam and what those weapons did when we invaded them?

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia

    Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticism

    Mi-17 helicopter units are being sold by Russia to the United States in a move that has drawn criticism. The M-17 helicopters will be deployed to the Afghan army.
    WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. military officials insisted a top-secret Pentagon study proved the need to buy Russian helicopters for Afghanistan’s security forces. But the study actually recommended an American-made rotorcraft, according to unclassified excerpts obtained by The Associated Press.
    The excerpts show the U.S. Army’s workhorse Chinook, built by Boeing Co. in Pennsylvania, was “the most cost-effective single platform type fleet for the Afghan Air Force over a 20-year” period.
    The finding has triggered allegations the Defense Department misled members of Congress and improperly cut U.S. companies out of competing for a contract that has swelled to more than $1 billion.
    More than two years since DOD announced it was acquiring Russian Mi-17 helicopters, a veil of secrecy still obscures the pact despite its high-dollar value, the potential for fraud and waste, and accusations the Pentagon muffled important information.

    - - - - -

    USA buying Russian helicopters. Whatjathink?

    I think it sucks. The cost isn't JUST the dollar costs, but where those dollars go. If American made, those dollars go here. If not, they go elsewhere. Paying unemployment and welfare to American workers while have Russia build systems we pay for? That's NUTS by every measure.
    Since Afghan security forces have been known to shoot our troops it does not seem wise to give them better weapons to do so. When we get out then let them buy whatever they want using their own money to do so. Why should the US taxpayers fund the Afghan military at all?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    [url=http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/390104-mi-17-helicopter-sale-mi-17-helicopters-bought-by-us-from-russia/?photo=2]Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US

    USA buying Russian helicopters. Whatjathink?

    I think it sucks. The cost isn't JUST the dollar costs, but where those dollars go. If American made, those dollars go here. If not, they go elsewhere. Paying unemployment and welfare to American workers while have Russia build systems we pay for? That's NUTS by every measure.
    I posted complaining about this some time ago http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...s-america.html

    ...and there were some pretty good responses there FYI.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    I had not heard this and by the date seemed breaking news.

    Those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. We have learned that shutting down American industry and jobs for cheap imports is devastatingly costly in the long run.

    IF this with helicopters makes sense, then all US made military goods should be offshored. India, China, Indonesia and so forth could make it all much cheaper. We could just shut down our entire defense industry, like our textile, electronics, steel making and about everything else.

    What would save enough more would be to replace our $840,000 each troops with Chinese, Indian, Indonesian and 3rd world military employees who would work for pennies on the dollar, plus no benefits or retirement in the future. This would save trillions and trillions of dollars.

    The greatest savings would be to contract out our military defense completely. Put the defense of the USA up for competitive world bidding. Chinese ground forces, Russian air force and Japanese Navy with N. Korean Marines.

    There MAY be a good PR reason to buy Russian helicopters for Afghanistan. For the USA, this year's ally is next year's enemy, and next year's enemy is the following year's ally.

    Probably, they see in the future an opportunity for another glorious shock-and-awe campaign in which our fabulous military is obliterating the Afghanistan military like shooting fish in a barrel - so good for national pride - and it's always embarrassing when we blow up weapons we gave to them in the first place. So, probably, the purchase of Russian helicopters is so that we can eventually destroy them in air attacks in the future.
    Last edited by joko104; 12-09-13 at 08:10 PM.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    The thing is prolly bugged with all kinds of shut down viruses.

    Remember when America sold weapons to Saddam and what those weapons did when we invaded them?
    What are you talking about?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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