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Thread: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticism

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    They are not gunships, they are transport helicopters.
    " It is a medium twin-turbine transport helicopter that can also act as a gunship."

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-17
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    " It is a medium twin-turbine transport helicopter that can also act as a gunship.
    I understand that, but I think they are mostly used for transport. And those gunships aren't as good as ours.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    The Afghans don't have the expertise to maintain them so they get training, and probably helping them setup a proper maintenance system. Before we showed up they were keeping them together with bubblegum and chicken wire. Our pilots didn't even want to get in those death traps.
    This topic was brought up a couple nights ago on another thread on the DP military forum.

    We all know why the Afghan's will be flying Russian copters than American made copters. The same reason why we are arming the Afghan army with AK-47 instead of M-16's.

    The Afghans aren't capable of maintaining either the American CH-47 or M-16.

    And it's very probable all of the Afghan army weapons will be in the hands of the Taliban within a decade anyways.
    Last edited by APACHERAT; 12-09-13 at 10:46 PM. Reason: should have been CH-47 not CH-46

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    And those gunships aren't as good as ours.
    And that is my original point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    This topic was brought up a couple nights ago on another thread on the DP military forum.

    We all know why the Afghan's will be flying Russian copters than American made copters. The same reason why we are arming the Afghan army with AK-47 instead of M-16's.

    The Afghans aren't capable of maintaining either the American CH-46 or M-16.

    And it's very probable all of the Afghan army weapons will be in the hands of the Taliban within a decade anyways.
    True, and the Navy is going to phase out the CH-46, but these are likely too advance for them as well.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    The primary reason not to sell them the CH-47 is that it's altitude performance is more than we'd want them to have.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by loader View Post
    Afghanistan it is mountains, gorges and rocky deserts.
    Now I'm not a real expert on helicopters but I do get my "Rotorwing" magazine every month in the mail.

    But I know more than a few Marine and Army helio pilots. From what I understand because of the high mountains in Afghanistan the only American made helicopter that can operate in those high altitudes is the CH-47 Chinook. Even our Apache AH-64 have problems with flying in those altitudes in the mountains.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    True, and the Navy is going to phase out the CH-46, but these are likely too advance for them as well.
    I made a mistake, I was referring to the CH-47 not the CH-46.

    The Marines V-22 Osprey is the replacement for the Corps CH-46. It served the Marine Corps well for over forty five years.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Russian-made helos are more suitable to high altitudes and cold temps...I don't see what the big deal is. Afghans were using Soviet tech before.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We don't want our future enemy to have gunships that are equal to ours.
    At this point it probably has more to do with the considerations of logistics, training, and overall economics of financing the development of an air force than anything else.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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