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Thread: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticism

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I posted complaining about this some time ago http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...s-america.html

    ...and there were some pretty good responses there FYI.
    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    A lot of good answers and I do see some explanation for this. Better product, better price. But I still wonder why this should be so. We spend a fortune on our military. Something like 700 billion and that's probably not everything since they have lots of hidden classified stuff in the background.

    Someone objected to bloating defense contractors. Sure, who loves them? They have enriched themselves beyond measure. But aren't we just bloating a Russian defense manufacturer?

    Instead of giving away deals and freebies only to the very rich and very poor, wouldn't this have created jobs and kept those dollars circulating in America? Why do they buy $3000 toilet seats and then suddenly decide the Russians offer a better price? So what if our helicopters suck? They'll probably be used to fight us 10 years from now anyway. At least we would control the parts supply.

    When I was in Thailand in 1967, I wrote to Lyndon Johnson complaining (very politely) about the same problem. Staff cars made in Germany. Generators made in Czechoslovakia (sp?). Hammers from China? Assistant Managers (for the contractor I worked for) from the Philippines. They had a justification for every point I addressed. The cutes one was if we hired Filipinos, they would go back to the Philippines and buy lots of American products there. Huh? As thanks for my interest, the State Department called my employer (Philco-Ford) and asked them to fire me. I threatened to sue (I had a one year contract) and they backed off. But the point is that they really like to buy foreign and they don't want to hear no stinkin' complaining. Hasn't changed much in 47 years.

    So, while I now understad the rationale, I don't agree with the procedure. Someone brought up the Glock as an example of so what. Good point. We can't make an American gun effective enough to supply ourselves. That's ridiculous! The only country where everybody can buy a gun - a huge market - a huge military - and we can't come up with a decent gun? What's wrong with us?
    I pulled it over and agree with you.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    I have no problem with this. If we were buying Russian equipment for our own use I would but to supply a foreign army it makes to give them cheaper (to buy and maintain) equipment.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    What are you talking about?
    I can't recall all the details as it has been quite a while but you may recall, back during the , "Shock and Awe," attack on Iraq, when America opened a big old can of Whup-Ass, and all those Iraqi defense systems we're just firing off in the air indiscriminately. It was reported on one of the major networks, in an interview with some defense official, that the Iraqi defense systems had been infiltrated by American technology since it's inception, to be rendered useless at America's pleasure.

    There should be a lesson somewhere in there when using the enemie's weaponry. At least, one would think so.

    I will go try to look it up. Not really sure how to Google it but I will try.

    Stay warm.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    The thing is prolly bugged with all kinds of shut down viruses.

    Remember when America sold weapons to Saddam and what those weapons did when we invaded them?
    My unit took indirect fire from some Iraqi crewed, American made M-107's that looked to be working just fine...so, what did those weapons do?...lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    I have no problem with this. If we were buying Russian equipment for our own use I would but to supply a foreign army it makes to give them cheaper (to buy and maintain) equipment.
    We don't want our future enemy to have gunships that are equal to ours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    We don't want our future enemy to have gunships that are equal to ours.
    They are not gunships, they are transport helicopters.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia

    Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticism

    Mi-17 helicopter units are being sold by Russia to the United States in a move that has drawn criticism. The M-17 helicopters will be deployed to the Afghan army.
    WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. military officials insisted a top-secret Pentagon study proved the need to buy Russian helicopters for Afghanistan’s security forces. But the study actually recommended an American-made rotorcraft, according to unclassified excerpts obtained by The Associated Press.
    The excerpts show the U.S. Army’s workhorse Chinook, built by Boeing Co. in Pennsylvania, was “the most cost-effective single platform type fleet for the Afghan Air Force over a 20-year” period.
    The finding has triggered allegations the Defense Department misled members of Congress and improperly cut U.S. companies out of competing for a contract that has swelled to more than $1 billion.
    More than two years since DOD announced it was acquiring Russian Mi-17 helicopters, a veil of secrecy still obscures the pact despite its high-dollar value, the potential for fraud and waste, and accusations the Pentagon muffled important information.

    - - - - -

    USA buying Russian helicopters. Whatjathink?

    I think it sucks. The cost isn't JUST the dollar costs, but where those dollars go. If American made, those dollars go here. If not, they go elsewhere. Paying unemployment and welfare to American workers while have Russia build systems we pay for? That's NUTS by every measure.
    As I understand that the helicopters were bought with the pilots because there beside the Russian Federation and have the opportunity to receive parts.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Yeah, I was about to say, but you beat me to it. There's far more expense associated with the proper maintenance of aircraft and proper training of crew that this decision makes sense for the Afghans. Of course, rather than the US military buying those aircraft and giving them to the Afghans, why not give the Afghans the money and let them buy them themselves? Or is that what's going on here?
    Afghanistan grows enough opium poppies to pay for their own helicopters.

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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Afghanistan grows enough opium poppies to pay for their own helicopters.
    The Afghans don't have the expertise to maintain them so they get training, and probably helping them setup a proper maintenance system. Before we showed up they were keeping them together with bubblegum and chicken wire. Our pilots didn't even want to get in those death traps.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Mi-17 Helicopter Sale: Mi-17 Helicopters Bought by US from Russia, Draws Criticis

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Afghanistan grows enough opium poppies to pay for their own helicopters.
    Afghanistan it is mountains, gorges and rocky deserts.

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