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Thread: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Now you are obfuscating... you don't think, if I recap correctly, that everyone should know the truth... I don't either, but I don't trust our elected hired hands
    See, and I feel bad because you've been nothing but polite, but all you're saying is to hire more hands!

    to always give me the straight up, and we, the people, do need to know when we are being lied to... you seem either unaware of or unconvinced that we should be concerned about any of that... in a democracy it is our duty to keep our eyes on government, keep them straight...
    And in a republic, we elect representatives. You're basically just adding another layer to it and saying "Okay, THESE guys will do a good job." My point is I think that, if they're informed, they're going to end up doing the same thing you're upset about our representatives doing.

    If you disagree, we no longer need converse on the topic...
    I guess not? But I'll still respond to your next post (sight unseen, it can't be that bad).
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Yeah, some department is leaking our defense codes to our enemies, who cares, right... I mean, we wouldn't want some guy in Minnesota to leak that kinda crap out, someone might actually get caught, get prosecuted, might actually save lives, might actually save the whole world from utter destruction... I mean if we are gonna just make up wild scenarios that feed into the silliness...
    That's the risk that's run when people with no experience in this get involved randomly.

    I'm not particularly offended if you agree or not, you don't seem to and I sure as heck am unconvinced by our current system nor your endorsement of the eminent appropriateness of it capacities ... but I thought I said early on, we can just agree to disagree...
    Well, I don't care? We're not going to back an independent body that's too close (because you can't trust the federal government to police the federal government), nor too far away (because you can't trust some random people to know anything about that which they're overseeing), so it's a moot point. Congress does what you're talking about: you just don't like their conclusions. Well, I'm sorry to tell you, but anyone with any knowledge of these situations is going to end basically agreeing with our current Congress. So you're just doomed to be upset about it, until you're in one of those positions wherein you can learn about these things and then you'll probably be satisfied. But they'll be hundreds of other "yous" out there, still. And you can't please them all. So why bother? Why try?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    See, and I feel bad because you've been nothing but polite, but all you're saying is to hire more hands!



    And in a republic, we elect representatives. You're basically just adding another layer to it and saying "Okay, THESE guys will do a good job." My point is I think that, if they're informed, they're going to end up doing the same thing you're upset about our representatives doing.



    I guess not? But I'll still respond to your next post (sight unseen, it can't be that bad).
    Juries are not hired. I just went to Jury duty last week, if your employer does not reimburse, mine does, I think they said after the third day they would pay $15 a day, that is not being paid...

    These would be citizens without pay trying to get to the truth... I am sure they could accept donations if needed, anonymous of course, wouldn't want any undue influence. They should be people selected by the whole country, from wherever... there are only two others who are selected by the entire country... so this would elevate them and give them necessary status... and they would be completely separate from the ruling elite class and its minions...and the real 4th branch of government, the bureaucracy.

    What is it they would be doing in your opinion that is going to upset me? Keep the truth from me? If they are people of integrity, no influence, no pay off and only expected to give us the nod that its okay...or, tell us the unvarnished truth because he thinks that best, have that ability to do as they please if need be [ I am not as concerned about the guy in Minn doing something crazy, if he did so I would probably think I needed to pay even closer attention ]...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    That's the risk that's run when people with no experience in this get involved randomly.



    Well, I don't care? We're not going to back an independent body that's too close (because you can't trust the federal government to police the federal government), nor too far away (because you can't trust some random people to know anything about that which they're overseeing), so it's a moot point. Congress does what you're talking about: you just don't like their conclusions. Well, I'm sorry to tell you, but anyone with any knowledge of these situations is going to end basically agreeing with our current Congress. So you're just doomed to be upset about it, until you're in one of those positions wherein you can learn about these things and then you'll probably be satisfied. But they'll be hundreds of other "yous" out there, still. And you can't please them all. So why bother? Why try?
    Right...

    I am not nearly so fatalistic nor pessimistic, nor nearly so trusting as you seem... I believe in us.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Juries are not hired. I just went to Jury duty last week, if your employer does not reimburse, mine does, I think they said after the third day they would pay $15 a day, that is not being paid...

    These would be citizens without pay trying to get to the truth... I am sure they could accept donations if needed, anonymous of course, wouldn't want any undue influence. They should be people selected by the whole country, from wherever... there are only two others who are selected by the entire country... so this would elevate them and give them necessary status... and they would be completely separate from the ruling elite class and its minions...and the real 4th branch of government, the bureaucracy.

    What is it they would be doing in your opinion that is going to upset me? Keep the truth from me? If they are people of integrity, no influence, no pay off and only expected to give us the nod that its okay...or, tell us the unvarnished truth because he thinks that best, have that ability to do as they please if need be [ I am not as concerned about the guy in Minn doing something crazy, if he did so I would probably think I needed to pay even closer attention ]...
    ...why would they be called? How often? What motivation- because they have no experience- would they have to keep the things they know to themselves? This, frankly, is an atrocious idea.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Right...

    I am not nearly so fatalistic nor pessimistic, nor nearly so trusting as you seem... I believe in us.
    Half of everyone is dumber than average. I don't trust idiots. I'm sorry.

    That still doesn't confront your idea that people that are in the know are too close, and people that aren't too close don't know enough. How does that fix that, because you seem to have come up with a perfectly horrible logic trap there.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    ...why would they be called? How often? What motivation- because they have no experience- would they have to keep the things they know to themselves? This, frankly, is an atrocious idea.
    I'd like to know, for instance, what really happened in Benghazi... do YOU know? At least like to know who was to blame, who actually made the decisions, who didn't but should have...something very wrong went down there. Has the system we have figured it out for us? Are those entities, the ones which you would like us to depend on, likely to figure it out? What is atrocious is that you and many others do not want to get to the bottom of such things, even when we know for sure our government is lying to us [ that has been proven ]... and nobody in our government seems particularly interested in getting to the real truth.

    Again, if you are interested in the truth, don't you think we, the people, have a right to know so we can fix that particular piece, the first step in resolving a problem is recognizing there is a problem and exactly what the problem is...

    So it seems we just have a different view of what it is to live in a place in which we hope to remain free. Again, we are the masters, they are the hired help... we only give our consent to be led, not to be led astray.

    Those of you who volunteer to be blind, to be led astray, we want different things, different results in this experiment called democracy. I want it to last, not to follow into some other form of governance.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Half of everyone is dumber than average. I don't trust idiots. I'm sorry.

    That still doesn't confront your idea that people that are in the know are too close, and people that aren't too close don't know enough. How does that fix that, because you seem to have come up with a perfectly horrible logic trap there.
    So throw your hands up in the air... I see the method of which you speak, just let it happen, take your hands off the steering wheel, go over the cliff, there is nothing that can be done... you give up... I don't, not until we are actually over the edge and going down. Even then I will be thinking about what I need to do to survive, not just sit there and wait for it to happen.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    I'd like to know, for instance, what really happened in Benghazi... do YOU know? At least like to know who was to blame, who actually made the decisions, who didn't but should have...something very wrong went down there. Has the system we have figured it out for us? Are those entities, the ones which you would like us to depend on, likely to figure it out? What is atrocious is that you and many others do not want to get to the bottom of such things, even when we know for sure our government is lying to us [ that has been proven ]... and nobody in our government seems particularly interested in getting to the real truth.
    So only this jury, this fourth branch would know? Or would they tell the entire world? What events would call this jury into action?

    Again, if you are interested in the truth, don't you think we, the people, have a right to know so we can fix that particular piece, the first step in resolving a problem is recognizing there is a problem and exactly what the problem is...

    So it seems we just have a different view of what it is to live in a place in which we hope to remain free. Again, we are the masters, they are the hired help... we only give our consent to be led, not to be led astray.

    Those of you who volunteer to be blind, to be led astray, we want different things, different results in this experiment called democracy. I want it to last, not to follow into some other form of governance.
    Democracy is pathetic, no one wants that. Republic...well, that's what we have.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    So throw your hands up in the air... I see the method of which you speak, just let it happen, take your hands off the steering wheel, go over the cliff, there is nothing that can be done... you give up... I don't, not until we are actually over the edge and going down. Even then I will be thinking about what I need to do to survive, not just sit there and wait for it to happen.
    Who said I'm taking my hands off of the steering wheel? You can actually get a job dedicated to working in the government and influencing policy and actions and operations, ya know. But does a plumber down the street need to know about intelligence? No. If they want to know, they can go into that field. Does a random teacher two towns down need to know about State Department internal policy? No. But if they care that much, they can become a diplomat.

    Things are classified for a reason.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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