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Thread: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Perhaps... we used to have that power, kinda like a 4th branch of the government. Still do, we just have been conveniently made unaware of this power, Grand Jury power where they had the power to exclude prosecutors from their presence at any time and to investigate public officials without governmental influence. This power allowed grand juries to serve a necessary and vital function of oversight upon the government. Seems the function of a grand jury to ferret out government corruption was the primary purpose of the grand jury system in ages past.

    "They" apparently have been able to massage this out of our common knowledge of this power, put it out of view when the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure were enacted in 1946. Probably something we should look into putting back into action.
    So it's still gonna basically be a branch of the federal government. So what, again, is the difference? The legislative branch already has oversight: you just don't like the decisions they make. Are we to continue creating more and more branches until you get a conclusion that you like?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    If its compartmentalized, that means, oftentimes, its shut off from even the knowledge of other departments/agencies... so they are not even aware enough to give oversight... if I don't know of something, how can I oversee it?
    So if they're too close, then there's a conflict of interest? If they're too far, then there's a lack of knowledge?

    This seems to me you just want oversight to agree with whatever you think of a certain situation, and have an excuse for anything, were not to.

    I mean, how would you feel about a panel or congress of intelligence professionals overseeing the intelligence agencies? They'd certainly have the knowledge and experience, wouldn't they?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    So it's still gonna basically be a branch of the federal government. So what, again, is the difference? The legislative branch already has oversight: you just don't like the decisions they make. Are we to continue creating more and more branches until you get a conclusion that you like?
    I think the oversight has to come from the outside, out here, in real Americaland...not government officials, just good people who care enough about a single issue to track it, follow its to its logical conclusion, find out what the heck is truly going on... I do trust juries more than our elected officials in Washington, officials who are subject variously to lobbying, bribes, fear of excoriation by fellow members and the press, isolation and exclusion if they don't "follow"the proper lead, etc... DC is not where oversight on specific things should initiate...should be out here, where we the concerned get out real questions answered as best we can, and I would hazard, much better than we are getting them now.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    I think the oversight has to come from the outside, out here, in real Americaland...not government officials, just good people who care enough about a single issue to track it, follow its to its logical conclusion, find out what the heck is truly going on... I do trust juries more than our elected officials in Washington, officials who are subject variously to lobbying, bribes, fear of excoriation by fellow members and the press, isolation and exclusion if they don't "follow"the proper lead, etc... DC is not where oversight on specific things should initiate...should be out here, where we the concerned get out real questions answered as best we can, and I would hazard, much better than we are getting them now.
    What's the difference? You're just creating another branch of federal government, and you already said you didn't trust the federal government to oversee the federal government. So these guys live in like Topeka or something? That's the difference?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    So if they're too close, then there's a conflict of interest? If they're too far, then there's a lack of knowledge?

    This seems to me you just want oversight to agree with whatever you think of a certain situation, and have an excuse for anything, were not to.

    I mean, how would you feel about a panel or congress of intelligence professionals overseeing the intelligence agencies? They'd certainly have the knowledge and experience, wouldn't they?
    And, it seems to me you might not really want to know the truth. I am not here to build a brand new government agency, besides, one would have to pay me to do that. I think the Grand Jury construct would be an appropriate platform, have subpoena power, have media watching...

    Haven't you ever watched a hearing and just been going, "Why don't they ask the obvious questions?" These folks are supposed to be getting at the answers, and yet often they don't... often limited to very narrow scopes and time limits... I think we need to be dogged sometimes, keep at them until we get the truth.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    What's the difference? You're just creating another branch of federal government, and you already said you didn't trust the federal government to oversee the federal government. So these guys live in like Topeka or something? That's the difference?
    No, no other branch, this would be ad hoc, citizens not on the government payroll, why do you keep trying to put this as a government entity... that is straw manish...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    And, it seems to me you might not really want to know the truth. I am not here to build a brand new government agency, besides, one would have to pay me to do that. I think the Grand Jury construct would be an appropriate platform, have subpoena power, have media watching...

    Haven't you ever watched a hearing and just been going, "Why don't they ask the obvious questions?" These folks are supposed to be getting at the answers, and yet often they don't... often limited to very narrow scopes and time limits... I think we need to be dogged sometimes, keep at them until we get the truth.
    "Know the truth"? I don't think the public should know the truth- I thought that's what we were talking about?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    No, no other branch, this would be ad hoc, citizens not on the government payroll, why do you keep trying to put this as a government entity... that is straw manish...
    Because you're suggesting regular people do the job of Congress- but that's what Congress is! I mean, do we get a random jury of people every time we "need" one? How often will we "need" one? Are they going to get read-in to the security clearance? Are they going to have muzzle orders? 12 people a year? So some guy from Minnesota violates his gag order- because he doesn't care, he sees something he doesn't like and tells the world- and it compromises an operation and a source in Brazil gets arrested and now sources all over Latin America are hesitant to work with the US and US operations there are hamstrung and why? For what?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    "Know the truth"? I don't think the public should know the truth- I thought that's what we were talking about?
    Now you are obfuscating... you don't think, if I recap correctly, that everyone should know the truth... I don't either, but I don't trust our elected hired hands to always give me the straight up, and we, the people, do need to know when we are being lied to... you seem either unaware of or unconvinced that we should be concerned about any of that... in a democracy it is our duty to keep our eyes on government, keep them straight...

    If you disagree, we no longer need converse on the topic...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Because you're suggesting regular people do the job of Congress- but that's what Congress is! I mean, do we get a random jury of people every time we "need" one? How often will we "need" one? Are they going to get read-in to the security clearance? Are they going to have muzzle orders? 12 people a year? So some guy from Minnesota violates his gag order- because he doesn't care, he sees something he doesn't like and tells the world- and it compromises an operation and a source in Brazil gets arrested and now sources all over Latin America are hesitant to work with the US and US operations there are hamstrung and why? For what?
    Yeah, some department is leaking our defense codes to our enemies, who cares, right... I mean, we wouldn't want some guy in Minnesota to leak that kinda crap out, someone might actually get caught, get prosecuted, might actually save lives, might actually save the whole world from utter destruction... I mean if we are gonna just make up wild scenarios that feed into the silliness...

    I'm not particularly offended if you agree or not, you don't seem to and I sure as heck am unconvinced by our current system nor your endorsement of the eminent appropriateness of it capacities ... but I thought I said early on, we can just agree to disagree...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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