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Thread: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Its been 12 years... can you give a plausible scenario in which this material still needs to remain classified? Declassify and if there is nothing there, it will give us, perhaps, a little more faith in government... which is sorely lacking...
    Means and methods, mostly. Human sources that continue to work for the US, possibly. Ya know, basically when you declassify something, you're essentially giving up the ability to get more intelligence via those sources. So like...ya know...people who's jobs it is to collect intelligence don't like giving up sources and methods just so some guys on a message board can feel a little bit better. Especially because typically those guys are just going to contend that there's some bigger secret out there anyway. In that case, it'd be all for naught anyway.

    So yeah...people really like classified things to stay classified.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Means and methods, mostly. Human sources that continue to work for the US, possibly.
    Names and sources of intelligence can be redacted. But to deny 28 pages of information is ridiculous, and usually means an attempt to keep dirty laundry from being aired out in public, which any organization known for secrecy habitually does.

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Names and sources of intelligence can be redacted. But to deny 28 pages of information is ridiculous, and usually means an attempt to keep dirty laundry from being aired out in public, which any organization known for secrecy habitually does.
    If it's 28 consecutive pages, it's almost certainly methodologies and not "dirty laundry". If it's 28 pages of content all together, it's probably both that and names.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You don't know what is classified and why.
    That is so true as to be obvious... yet certainly not very persuasive.

    We cannot just rely on government to alert us when it is critical that the public know. Am familiar enough with too many instances in our history to just leave it up to "them" to tell us... besides, its been 12 years plus... wish we had some form of ombudsmen that we, the independent public, could ad hoc elect/appoint, people of integrity but also curious and not beholden to any government agency, to take a peek at things and assure the rest of us.

    I do not personally have a need to know anything explicit, I just concerned that we know its all legit. Its our duty in a democracy to keep that watchful eye on our elected representatives as they are, in the ultimate accounting, only our hired employees.
    Last edited by Gaugingcatenate; 12-11-13 at 07:50 PM.
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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    We cannot just rely on government to alert us when it is critical that the public know.
    You have to when it comes to intelligence. That's the point of it. If every person in the US knew about all intelligence operations, that would mean most of the people on the planet would, which would defeat the purpose.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Means and methods, mostly. Human sources that continue to work for the US, possibly. Ya know, basically when you declassify something, you're essentially giving up the ability to get more intelligence via those sources. So like...ya know...people who's jobs it is to collect intelligence don't like giving up sources and methods just so some guys on a message board can feel a little bit better. Especially because typically those guys are just going to contend that there's some bigger secret out there anyway. In that case, it'd be all for naught anyway.

    So yeah...people really like classified things to stay classified.
    Yes, I am sure they do... its just that we are the boss, they are the hired help and there should be some kind of "sell by date" after which we get to make sure our hired help are not screwing with us. At minimum we should have some form of ombudsmen to verify the truth of what they say... I often get that feeling that even those of us watching fairly closely are being played the fool.

    These things need a practical expiration date.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Yes, I am sure they do... its just that we are the boss, they are the hired help and there should be some kind of "sell by date" after which we get to make sure our hired help are not screwing with us. At minimum we should have some form of ombudsmen to verify the truth of what they say... I often get that feeling that even those of us watching fairly closely are being played the fool.
    Like the government you elect, for example?

    These things need a practical expiration date.
    Nah.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    You have to when it comes to intelligence. That's the point of it. If every person in the US knew about all intelligence operations, that would mean most of the people on the planet would, which would defeat the purpose.
    I agree, but also know we have been screwed with that approach in the past, its why we need someone independent, trustworthy, to look at what went on closely, then nod to us that its ok...or not okay.

    I have no need to specifically know, or let the whole world know... but I do want to know its all legit.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    I agree, but also know we have been screwed with that approach in the past, its why we need someone independent, trustworthy, to look at what went on closely, then nod to us that its ok...or not okay.

    I have no need to specifically know, or let the whole world know... but I do want to know its all legit.
    Like...the government you elect?
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: New House Resolution Calls for Declassifying Secret Portion of 9/11 Report

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You don't know what is classified and why.
    I agree. What happens, for instance, if the US found out plans that terrorists want to commit certain acts? The future who, what, when, where, why and how could jeopardize more successful drone attacks.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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