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Thread: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

  1. #101
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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Of course they are -- government on a small-time local scale. Again, in the context of this discussion, why does it matter.
    So, you're ok with government book burning, as long as it's not the Feds?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Who said you did? We're laughing at your use of any of these words: nazi, socialism, hitler, goebbels, propaganda etc.
    Sounds like I hit close to home.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Sounds like I hit close to home.
    Sounds like something Hitler would say.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Sounds like something Hitler would say.
    Go grab your copy of Mein Kampf and see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, you're ok with government book burning, as long as it's not the Feds?
    ....

    Who, exactly, is burning anything here?

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Sounds like I hit close to home.
    Ah yes, pointing out the absurdity of asinine Nazi comparisons means those comparisons are accurate!
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  6. #106
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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    ....

    Who, exactly, is burning anything here?



    Ah yes, pointing out the absurdity of asinine Nazi comparisons means those comparisons are accurate!
    Sounds like you're scared?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  7. #107
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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    It may or may not go ahead of the child's head. It's not reading all that much into it. We can find all sorts of goodies in popular culture if you look. Again, it's not really shocking, and it's why I sometimes encourage it with a large chunk of films portraying the 1950s (they tend to use a New Left or Neomarxist framework). Conservatives aren't afraid of doing it, at least sometimes.

    Image 1: The discussion seems to center on his status as a white man, against that of his people, for discontent.

    Image 2: We can pull it back a bit. I wasn't simply stating racist, I was going after the notion that this wouldn't be offensive. So, on the first step, it certainly can be offensive if you are looking at it from the perspective of the colonized. Romanticization of Americanization projects in Indian Boarding Schools in the United States would likewise cause controversy, and not without merit. Next, to attach racial components to it, you have to recall that the Belgians, along with every great European power, did impart racial hierarchies to justify their empires. The choice to educate students about the great empire of Belgium is not just a choice of empire and the nation, it is a choice of cultural and racial superiority taken as a rather matter-of-fact view for the time period and place at which the story was written.

    More on Image 2: Again, think about the subject from a post-colonialist perspective. If one were to strive to overcome one's national "sins" or perhaps address portrayals of other cultures in your popular culture, then this would be cause for offense. It's why we Americans criticize what the Japanese do in their classrooms regarding acknowledging or discussing the sins of their own empire (I'm especially thinking about the Chinese here), and do the same in many other countries.

    Image 3: What about Tin-Tin gives him status? Is it his wealth? Is it his nationality?
    The idea that we have "sins" which need to be "atoned" for in the first place is a big part of the problem here.

    It was a different time, with a different culture, and different values. There's no real need to take things much further than that within the context of "acceptable" literature.

    I agree that simple analysis isn't a bad thing in and of itself, but the kind of value judgments you're throwing into this simply are not necessary. Wringing our hands over past injustices that people living today had no role in committing isn't going to help anyone.

    It simply serves to instill counter-productive cultural self-loathing.

    Trying to actively cover up evidence of them is even more troublesome, as it gives people living today an inaccurate view of who our ancestors actually were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    He's an out work teenage who goes around solving crimes all over the world. You tell me how accurate his portrayal is.
    Would the typical European visitor to a technologically primitive society be treated with special decorum, or wouldn't he?

    Going by most historical examples, he most certainly would have.

    I'll take simplistic Eurocentric perspective of complex issues for 600 Alex.
    If the people residing in a given society generally live in poverty, and lack access to basic necessities like indoor plumbing, electricity, clean water, and elementary education, then they just might need a helping hand every now and then.

    It did. It has. Today, the only sense you'd have that the DRC was once owned by the Belgians is the modern day carnage handed down by Leopold.
    What's the problem then?

    Unless of course the depiction of colonialism is one meant to whitewash the atrocities committed. You're being purposely obtuse.
    Again man, it was written during the 1930s. Most of the public's views on colonialist endeavors and the colonialist mindset would have been positive during this period. Trying to "white wash" this fact out of our society's cultural record isn't going to change it.

    Take the attitudes the book expresses as being a product of their time and simply move on.

    Revisionism, apologism, historical ignorance. That's what the rest of your post boils down to.
    I'm sorry, but the simple fact of the matter is that you're not going to agree with everything you read.

    It doesn't mean that it necessarily needs to be banned.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 12-03-13 at 11:13 PM.

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Call it a day Fiddy. This guy is an apologist. He hides behind "in their context" and then ignores the colonial context not to mention completely dismisses barbaric history of the Belgian Congo (see Leopold) - which is a large part of the story's extensive context. Only on DP folks.
    Leopold was just misunderstood

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Sounds like you're scared?
    Okay.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  10. #110
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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    It may or may not be. All I'm saying is that I really don't see "colonialism" as being particularly offensive in and of itself.
    In the context of the Belgium congo, there wasn't much to redeem it. It's probably the worst example of western colonialism one can cite, with leopold basically treatinG everyone and everything within it as his personal property, to do as he willed. It's little coincidence it served as the setting for Conrad's "heart of Darkness"

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