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Thread: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    I still think you might be reading too much into it. Even if the things you mentioned are present, they are going to go way over the head of any child reading the book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Image 1: Savagery.
    Perhaps, but so what? Apart from the fact that he's black and speaks slightly broken English, how is he different from any other cartoon villain?

    I agree that the manner of his portrayal is tasteless, but the fact that he is portrayed as being hostile at all isn't "racist" in and of itself.

    Image 2: Educating natives about their home country of Belgium.
    I'll admit that I did miss the "their" part of the equation. However, even then, the simple act of educating someone on a certain way of life isn't "racist" in and of itself. If he were to start doing comparisons, and going out of his way to present the natives' way of life as being buffoonish and idiotic in comparison to his own, that would be where I drew the line in this regard.

    He might very well do this later in the comic. It simply wasn't apparent in the snippet Hat posted.

    Power granted to the white educator, instructing black students, not about their culture, but of the hegemonic power.
    Well, yes, but that is what pretty much always happens when one culture conquers another. I don't find the simple allusion to it to be particularly offensive.

    It depends upon the presentation.

    Image 3: White man experiencing the privilege of his culture over that of the colonized peoples.
    Like I said, that could an honor bestowed on any high status visitor. It depends upon the context.

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    lol @ that guy
    The difference is I have no liquor this time around. Kobie and I got e-drunk because of a 10 post exchange with him. He must have used "socialist scum" around 15 times per post.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I still think you might be reading too much into it. Even if the things you mentioned are present, they are going to go way over the head of any child reading the book.

    Perhaps, but so what? Apart from the fact that he's black and speaks slightly broken English, how is he different from any other cartoon villain?

    I agree that the manner of his portrayal is tasteless, but the fact that he is portrayed as being hostile at all isn't "racist" in and of itself.

    I'll admit that I did miss the "their" part of the equation. However, even then, the simple act of educating someone on a certain way of life isn't "racist" in and of itself. If he were to start doing comparisons, and going out of his way to present the natives' way of life as being buffoonish and idiotic in comparison to his own, that would be where I drew the line in this regard.

    He might very well do this later in the comic. It simply wasn't apparent in the snippet Hat posted.

    Well, yes, but that is what pretty much always happens when one culture conquers another. I don't find the simple allusion to it to be particularly offensive.

    It depends upon the presentation.

    Like I said, that could an honor bestowed on any high status visitor. It depends upon the context.
    Call it a day Fiddy. This guy is an apologist. He hides behind "in their context" and then ignores the colonial context not to mention completely dismisses barbaric history of the Belgian Congo (see Leopold) - which is a large part of the story's extensive context. Only on DP folks.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    You're the one who posted GOVERNMENT RUN in ALL CAPS as if it ****ING MATTERED.
    Libraries are run by...um...government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The difference is I have no liquor this time around. Kobie and I got e-drunk because of a 10 post exchange with him. He must have used "socialist scum" around 15 times per post.
    I never said that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Honored guest or just any European like Tin-Tin was.
    It's not like it's an inaccurate portrayal.

    Do you speak French? Votre patrie is not "his" nation. It's their nation.
    I'll admit that I did miss that. However, it should be noted that they were, technically, Belgian subjects at this point.

    As such, the description isn't inaccurate.

    Actually, it is. It assumes that people 1) need your educating 2) need your salvation 3) need your help.
    Have you been to any of the countries these organizations visit lately? There's nothing wrong with charity work.

    If their culture is really that great, it will resist assimilation anyway.

    I can't believe I'm explaining why the colonialism depicted in Tin-Tin is incredibly racist.
    It may or may not be. All I'm saying is that I really don't see "colonialism" as being particularly offensive in and of itself.

    It was a fact of history whether you like it or not, and so were the attitudes represented in that book. Pretending like this wasn't the case when it plainly was isn't going to accomplish anything.

    That kind of context is going to fly completely over most kids' heads anyway.

    Ah, so you've reverted to "don't read it". Well, it's why don't we instead propose it be removed from schools and if a kid wants to read it, they can go find it?
    In this particular case, that is probably justified. While I doubt that many Libraries have copies of "Tin Tin in the Congo" just lying around, it is tasteless enough to merit being taken off shelves.

    I simply don't really understand all the outrage over it. Are you guys really surprised that early twentieth century colonialists tended to be less than "politically correct" in their worldview?

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I still think you might be reading too much into it. Even if the things you mentioned are present, they are going to go way over the head of any child reading the book.
    It may or may not go ahead of the child's head. It's not reading all that much into it. We can find all sorts of goodies in popular culture if you look. Again, it's not really shocking, and it's why I sometimes encourage it with a large chunk of films portraying the 1950s (they tend to use a New Left or Neomarxist framework). Conservatives aren't afraid of doing it, at least sometimes.

    Image 1: The discussion seems to center on his status as a white man, against that of his people, for discontent.

    Image 2: We can pull it back a bit. I wasn't simply stating racist, I was going after the notion that this wouldn't be offensive. So, on the first step, it certainly can be offensive if you are looking at it from the perspective of the colonized. Romanticization of Americanization projects in Indian Boarding Schools in the United States would likewise cause controversy, and not without merit. Next, to attach racial components to it, you have to recall that the Belgians, along with every great European power, did impart racial hierarchies to justify their empires. The choice to educate students about the great empire of Belgium is not just a choice of empire and the nation, it is a choice of cultural and racial superiority taken as a rather matter-of-fact view for the time period and place at which the story was written.

    More on Image 2: Again, think about the subject from a post-colonialist perspective. If one were to strive to overcome one's national "sins" or perhaps address portrayals of other cultures in your popular culture, then this would be cause for offense. It's why we Americans criticize what the Japanese do in their classrooms regarding acknowledging or discussing the sins of their own empire (I'm especially thinking about the Chinese here), and do the same in many other countries.

    Image 3: What about Tin-Tin gives him status? Is it his wealth? Is it his nationality?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Libraries are run by...um...government.
    Of course they are -- government on a small-time local scale. Again, in the context of this discussion, why does it matter.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    It's not like it's an inaccurate portrayal.
    He's an out work teenage who goes around solving crimes all over the world. You tell me how accurate his portrayal is.

    I'll admit that I did miss that. However, it be noted that they were, technically, Belgian subjects at this point. As such, the description isn't inaccurate.
    As most in the B.C. were never even considered Belgian citizens, held any rights equivalent to belgians or even so much as spoke French or shared Belgian culture calling Belgium "their nation" is absolutely inaccurate. Seriously, you're way out of your league here.

    You been to any of the countries these organizations visit lately? There's nothing wrong with charity work.
    I'll take simplistic Eurocentric perspective of complex issues for 600 Alex.

    If their culture is really that great, it will resist assimilation anyway.
    It did. It has. Today, the only sense you'd have that the DRC was once owned by the Belgians is the modern day carnage handed down by Leopold.

    It may or may not be. All I'm saying is that I really don't see "colonialism" as being particularly offensive in and of itself.
    Unless of course the depiction of colonialism is one meant to whitewash the atrocities committed. You're being purposely obtuse.

    It was a fact of history whether you like it or not, and so were the attitudes represented in that book. Pretending like this wasn't the case isn't going to accomplish anything. That kind of context is going to fly completely over most kids heads anyway. In this particular case, that is probably justified. While I doubt that many Libraries have copies of this particular book just lying around, it is tasteless enough to merit being taken off shelves. I simply don't really understand all the outrage over it. Are you guys really surprised that early twentieth century colonialists tended to less than "politically correct" in their worldview?
    Revisionism, apologism, historical ignorance. That's what the rest of your post boils down to.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pippi Longstocking and 6 other supposedly racist children's characters

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I never said that.
    Who said you did? We're laughing at your use of any of these words: nazi, socialism, hitler, goebbels, propaganda etc.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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