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Thread: America Is 'Less Safe' Than 2 Years Ago, Intelligence Committee Chairs Say

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    Re: America Is 'Less Safe' Than 2 Years Ago, Intelligence Committee Chairs Say

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: America Is 'Less Safe' Than 2 Years Ago, Intelligence Committee Chairs Say

    So much for that Patriot Act, the NSA, and Homeland Security doing a lot of good.. Sounds like all this **** was a giant waste of money. [/FONT][/COLOR]
    This is an immensely ignorant presentation of an argument.

    The Patriot Act, NSA, and Homeland Security didn't come into creation 2 years ago. Thus simply pointing out an assertion we're less safe than we were 2 years ago in no way, shape, or form indicates that it's in spite of those things you posted. Rather, there's as much of an argument to be made that it would be worse if those things were removed as there is to suggest that they've simply been a "waste of money".

    At the very least, one would need to look at the situation prior to their creation and post their creation to even get something CLOSE to a reasonable amount of evidence to make a claim such as you made.

    Furthermore, there's plenty of supporting evidence that a counter position could point at to suggest that it was actually attempts to undermine some of those things...such as the various leaks regarding the NSA...that has helped to lead to such problems rather than them itself.

    The stories an interesting one and worthy of conversation. Your immensely ridiculous, unsubstantiated, stereotypical response in relation to the story is however worthy only of condemnation and ridicule for it's incredibly lack of substance.

    What I find rather interesting here is Feinstein's stance and even focused conversation regarding extremist islamic Jihad, and that there was clear agreement between both Roger's and Feinstein.

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    Re: America Is 'Less Safe' Than 2 Years Ago, Intelligence Committee Chairs Say

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I agree that the current strategy is not working, I'm just commented that your solution of "nuke mecca" would not either.
    Agree completely.

    First, it's only use would be as a threat. ACTUALLY doing it would be disasterous. And given our current track record in terms of threats ("Red Line" in Syria, years of "sanctions" with a threat of action in SK, Iran, Iraq, etc) I don't think the threat would prove all that threatening.

    Which would then mean we'd be faced with a situation to carry out said threat. That would be HORRIBLE. You would garner the ire of every moderate muslim in the world most likely for taking an extremely disproportionate action in response to whatever attack occured. You would provide the largest possible fuel to the fire for those who utilize American actions to "call to arms" and radicalize muslims. And you'd galvanize the international community over such an action.

    I agree as well that our current strategies are hardly the prime methods to use...but such action as was suggested would just be massively problematic imho.

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    Re: America Is 'Less Safe' Than 2 Years Ago, Intelligence Committee Chairs Say

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    One cannot continue whacking the hornets nest with a stick and wondering why they keep getting stung. Stirring up the Jihad crew with the occasional zapping of their #2 guy (seems we do that quite often) is not the "git 'r done" plan that we were assured would work. They, Muslims and their nation states, need to be convinced that controlling these international terror groups is their job.

    Fighting wars on conditions, the war on "poverty", the war on "drugs" and the war on "terror" are, as we fight them now, endless efforts.

    I propose this "red line" policy on the Jihad; the next major (as defined by the POTUS, and agreed to by congress) Jihad attack on US personnel will result in the complete destruction of Mecca with nuclear devices. If the "good Muslims", that we are assured can govern their masses, will not control their own crime problem directed at us then we, the people of the USA, will acknowledge the Jihad as being the official policy of Islam, and its supporting nation states, and will react accordingly.
    lol. right.

    there are 1.6 billion followers of Islam. even though there is absolutely no chance that anyone in power will propose this idea, doing so would have horrifyingly awful consequences. this kind of crap is why i will never vote for another hawk again.

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    Re: America Is 'Less Safe' Than 2 Years Ago, Intelligence Committee Chairs Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    lol. right.

    there are 1.6 billion followers of Islam. even though there is absolutely no chance that anyone in power will propose this idea, doing so would have horrifyingly awful consequences. this kind of crap is why i will never vote for another hawk again.
    Yep. The plan to have our military wander around Afghanistan, for a couple of decades, getting body parts blown off is working much better. We rebuilt Iraq into a democratic paradise, peace and prosperity abound there now.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: America Is 'Less Safe' Than 2 Years Ago, Intelligence Committee Chairs Say

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yep. The plan to have our military wander around Afghanistan, for a couple of decades, getting body parts blown off is working much better. We rebuilt Iraq into a democratic paradise, peace and prosperity abound there now.
    get all of them out of there and bring them home.

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    Re: America Is 'Less Safe' Than 2 Years Ago, Intelligence Committee Chairs Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    get all of them out of there and bring them home.
    Return to the pre-9/11 plan and hope for the best?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: America Is 'Less Safe' Than 2 Years Ago, Intelligence Committee Chairs Say

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Return to the pre-9/11 plan and hope for the best?
    No, we were heavily invested in the region before 9/11. I'm talking about quitting the global cop stuff and going back to being a country.

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    Re: America Is 'Less Safe' Than 2 Years Ago, Intelligence Committee Chairs Say

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    No, we were heavily invested in the region before 9/11. I'm talking about quitting the global cop stuff and going back to being a country.
    But we have to pay a steep ransom (bribe?) to keep many nations from wiping out Israel. We pay make nice money all over the place to keep "free" trade going as the corporate bosses command in exchange for campaign cash. We must also use our military, in some fashion, to prevent massive cuts in defense pork from happening. Things are complicated, because many depend on having a crisis, of some sort, to keep the gov't money flowing "correctly".
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: America Is 'Less Safe' Than 2 Years Ago, Intelligence Committee Chairs Say

    Something from an actual IC agency would be more compelling that the noise coming from politicians. Not that what politicians say is automatically wrong, but it is more suspect than the reports from the IC.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: America Is 'Less Safe' Than 2 Years Ago, Intelligence Committee Chairs Say

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    But we have to pay a steep ransom (bribe?) to keep many nations from wiping out Israel. We pay make nice money all over the place to keep "free" trade going as the corporate bosses command in exchange for campaign cash. We must also use our military, in some fashion, to prevent massive cuts in defense pork from happening. Things are complicated, because many depend on having a crisis, of some sort, to keep the gov't money flowing "correctly".
    we would let it be known that an invasion of Israel would result in a large scale war. the rest of it is on SA as the regional hegemon.

    we aren't the world's army. the world does not pay a tax for the service, and it also doesn't get a vote in our elections. global police missions are no more our responsibility than they are Switzerland's. it's way past time that we accept this and start scaling back and bringing people home. i think you'll be surprised at how much of a less appealing target we will become. then we can spend the money on more important things, like figuring out a way to replace gasoline with something domestic that we don't have to defend our access to militarily.

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