Reported Paul Walker of Fast and Furios fame dead at 40.

Three separate threads on this actor who was in a car crash, yet no coverage of the hundreds of soldiers who died in Afghanistan this year.

Summerwind said:

And if that turns out to be true, I'll rescind. But I can assure you, that if this was a no-name Mexican, and for any reason it got into the national news, no one would be mourning, they'd be blaming him for his stupidity, which in to my perspective is the right attitude regardless of the fact that Walker is a blond haired, blue eyed, white actor.

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The only correct thing you've said so far in this thread is that this particular accident only made news because it involved a celebrity, something that has been true for the past century, so it's hardly an innovative notion. Walker wasn't even driving the car, yet you continue to rail on his "stupidity". I suppose if he was a passenger in a vehicle that was speeding it would have been more intelligent of him, according to you, to bail out at 60 miles an hour and die ugly on the pavement. Honestly, I will never understand people like you. I think that may be a good thing.

DiAnna said:

The only correct thing you've said so far in this thread is that this particular accident only made news because it involved a celebrity, something that has been true for the past century, so it's hardly an innovative notion. Walker wasn't even driving the car, yet you continue to rail on his "stupidity". I suppose if he was a passenger in a vehicle that was speeding it would have been more intelligent of him, according to you, to bail out at 60 miles an hour and die ugly on the pavement. Honestly, I will never understand people like you. I think that may be a good thing.

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No there are so many other options, like asking your friend to stop speeding or to pull over and let you out. Surprisingly it works, more than once I've walked home or to a phone. Even had to do it to my own father who thought it was cute to race in rush hour traffic against a 280Z with his pregnant daughter (me) int he cubby because Jann was in the other passenger seat. Sorry, but you seem to have limited ability to see options other than black or white.

Summerwind said:

No there are so many other options, like asking your friend to stop speeding or to pull over and let you out. Surprisingly it works, more than once I've walked home or to a phone. Even had to do it to my own father who thought it was cute to race in rush hour traffic against a 280Z with his pregnant daughter (me) int he cubby because Jann was in the other passenger seat. Sorry, but you seem to have limited ability to see options other than black or white.

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That's an odd statement from someone who decided instantly, and without any facts whatsoever, that anyone who was involved in such a wreck, or was a passenger in such a wreck, was automatically stupid and to blame for his own death. :lol:

DiAnna said:

That's an odd statement from someone who decided instantly, and without any facts whatsoever, that anyone who was involved in such a wreck, or was a passenger in such a wreck, was automatically stupid and to blame for his own death. :lol:

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Yes, because he had all manner of grey in between. I just really hate that celebrities can be drug addicts, wrap themselves around trees, and all manner of crap that any other non-white, no name person would be wracked for. It's disgusting. On that I agree to being black and white, you got me.

apdst said:

He was gone faster than, judging by the looks of that car.

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def wasn't going to Walker away from that one

"Super" performance cars as he was in are a very mixed bag. That is something who I think the best and most experienced review, Jeremy Clark, has explained. He has pretty much driven every mega-dollar super performance car there is, including on closed road course tracks and miles long runways.

They are so powerful that the drivers are highly dependent upon the computer controls of the car - which included the throttle, transmission, brakes and suspension - because the power is SO great. They are incredible machines. But there is a danger too. I have an older built-up "super performance car" - 800 horsepower. 1000 ft/pounds torque. And all the computer controls as it is modern. I've driven fast sports cars (including Porsche) and a few hot muscle cars. But this car I have, although more sophisticated and refined, is a VERY frightening machine if you get on it. And impossible to use in a performance sense without that computer assistance and control vetoing your excesses.

He explained something I learned quick. Those cars can be scary as hell. They can take corners, accelerate and decelerate (braking) at incredible speeds, with the computers adjusting the suspension, doing braking (whether you are or not), operating the accelerator and transmission millisecond by millsecond - allowing performance the driver could never do on his own. BUT IF the driver is exceeding even what the computers can control, the overall loss of control of the car is catastrophic. It's all over. Nothing you can do.

Traction control prevents people from being able to do intense "burn outs" and in lesser performance cars you can gain a slight performance edge by "turning off" what is called "traction control." This is no big deal in ordinary cars. It is a big deal to turn it off on a super car. If you do, unless you are VERY tender with the throttle you might as well have your back tires on ice. And if you lose rear tire traction on a hard turn? You WILL lose it. And you CAN'T recover. I've turned off traction control twice and punched it on mine. And then you can totally forget having rear tire traction - and once I did it while at a slight angle - and I was instantly sideways.

I suspect what happened is to show off his $500,000 Porsche GT, the driver turned off traction control, and then came into a corner fast. NORMALLY, with traction control on the computer would immediately shut down the throttle and best possible automatically operate the massive anti-lock brakes, and adjust the suspension for the best possible grip - trying to save the car. But with it off? He had no brakes operating, a soft suspension, and totally unmanageable power going to the rear tires.

Any investigation should examine the computer's black box to determine if traction control was on or off?

I've had a Porsches (928s), and they were fast, though not so much as to not be manageable. I don't care much for Porsches and think they are way overpriced for what you get (when new - old 928s are a real bargain). They also handle differently than other performance cars, which can throw some people off.

Put simply, super performance cars now well exceed human capabilities. And if truly pushed, even all the computer controls in the world can't manage it. As a result, the ceiling on performance has basically been reached due to 1.) human and 2.) tire limitations. They can now make cars of almost unlimited power, but that actually starts slowing the car down as even the computers can't control it. There is the possibility that the car also has computer limiting software overriding power limiters - particularly torque limiting. Basically, ALL super cars have computers LIMITING the torque of the motor. But many have software reprogrammed to override it. My car does. This also adds a danger factor is pushing it to the limit - because the power exceeds safety limits significantly.

I wonder how many famous people have been killed in high performance Porches? James Dean was killed in an open Porsche speedster.

jonny5 said:

Three separate threads on this actor who was in a car crash, yet no coverage of the hundreds of soldiers who died in Afghanistan this year.

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That's not true. There is plenty going on that topic. Go look at the military board.

So what? Guy died. People die everyday. Why do people mourn because he was an actor?

Bodhisattva said:

So what? Guy died. People die everyday. Why do people mourn because he was an actor?

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What I don't like is when this type of thing happens people proclaim that it was automatically "stupid". Like I've said earlier, pending witness statements and forensic analysis it's impossible to know what happened from reading the initial account. Anything can happen in a vehicle to make even safe operation fail, tie rods can break, brakes can fail, lose a center link and you will be all over the place, steering column can have a fatal failure like a crack, throttle can stick even when new(especially with the new hybrid mechanical/cpu ones), hell, if the gear box suddenly goes out or the power steering unit fails unexpectedly there is going to be a huge problem.

LaMidRighter said:

What I don't like is when this type of thing happens people proclaim that it was automatically "stupid". Like I've said earlier, pending witness statements and forensic analysis it's impossible to know what happened from reading the initial account. Anything can happen in a vehicle to make even safe operation fail, tie rods can break, brakes can fail, lose a center link and you will be all over the place, steering column can have a fatal failure like a crack, throttle can stick even when new(especially with the new hybrid mechanical/cpu ones), hell, if the gear box suddenly goes out or the power steering unit fails unexpectedly there is going to be a huge problem.

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If that was a 180 degree posted 15 mph curve, and given it was a Porsche GT, there is no possibility that excessive speed wasn't the factor. However, the car's computer restraints could have been turned off and the software modified - so the car could no longer take the corner at the speed it otherwise could have.

That much damage couldn't have been caused at 15-20 per hour even if all the wheels had fallen off as he steered directly towards the pole deliberated. It would take a lot of speed in a Porsche GT to lose it enough to hit a pole sideways. Cars don't drive sideways.

Photos of people losing control of such super cars are not rare. It's like driving a car with an auxillary rocket shed motor on the back. I bet the Porsche had performance software upgrading and traction control was turned off. I would bet he "punched" it with traction control off to do the traditional powering into a curve to "drift" around the corner. It would NOT work in that car. You cannot do it with traction control on - the car won't allow it. And you can't do it with traction control off because there is TOO much power if you do. TOO much power can prevent certain performance actions as can too little - but if too much you will crash when it comes to "drifting" - which is very popular in some circles.

I won't say the driver was an idiot. I will say he obviously really screwed up. Like everyone else will do a million times in their life time. But this screw up cost him his life. And that of a passenger. That I can fault him with. You don't drive like a demon with someone else in the car, not around corners.

jonny5 said:

Three separate threads on this actor who was in a car crash, yet no coverage of the hundreds of soldiers who died in Afghanistan this year.

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So make a thread about it and stop whining.

joko104 said:

If that was a 180 degree posted 15 mph curve, and given it was a Porsche GT, there is no possibility that excessive speed wasn't the factor. However, the car's computer restraints could have been turned off and the software modified - so the car could no longer take the corner at the speed it otherwise could have.

That much damage could have been caused at 15-20 per hour even if all the wheels had fallen off as he steered directly towards the pole deliberated.

Photos of people losing control of such super cars are not rare. It's like driving a car with an auxillary rocket shed motor on the back. I bet in had performance software upgrading and traction control was turned off.

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Speed had to be excessive for the turn, not arguing that. However people are proclaiming driver error(likely) without all the facts. A high performance car can get up there quickly, and if a throttle sticks as has been seen on multiple vehicle models since the new CPU/Mechanical hybrids have been introduced it could be a factor, anything could have happened is my point. I don't like the fact that people are automatically jumping the gun and speculating one way or the other.

Bodhisattva said:

So what? Guy died. People die everyday. Why do people mourn because he was an actor?

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I think people would post the correct courtesy regardless of who.

Being an actor - and considering what movies he was in (driving cars crazy fast and with piles of accidents in those movies) makes it "ironic." Thus making it a top story. And there is a lesson to learn too. Stunt driving in movies isn't real. The actual cars he drove weren't performance built up at all, but ordinary cars with original motors and a cool paint job. And if you ever read about such car-movies, you will find they usually needed many cars for the main car, because so many would get wrecked even doing the carefully planned stunts.

The First Gone in 60 Seconds took 4 Mustangs. The star of that movie was actually killed in an accident while stunt driving on the street for a subsequent movie. Even in the original movie there is a scene when he lost control of a car hitting a pole - which was NOT in the script. Even in scripted, planned ubber fast driving for movies they have unplanned accidents.

There is something to be learned from his death. Don't think all the cool stuff you see in the Fast and Furious movies is something you cannot do without REAL risk of accident and lose of life - yours and other people. He was the original primary star of the most popular street racing movies ever made. So there is something to be learned from his death in a high speed cornering wreck while in a half million dollar super car.

joko104 said:

I think people would post the correct courtesy regardless of who.

Being an actor - and considering what movies he was in (driving cars crazy fast and with piles of accidents in those movies) makes it "ironic." Thus making it a top story. And there is a lesson to learn too. Stunt driving in movies isn't real. The actual cars he drove weren't performance built up at all, but ordinary cars with original motors and a cool paint job. And if you ever read about such car-movies, you will find they usually needed many cars for the main car, because so many would get wrecked even doing the carefully planned stunts.

The First Gone in 60 Seconds took 4 Mustangs. The star of that movie was actually killed in an accident while stunt driving on the street for a subsequent movie. Even in the original movie there is a scene when he lost control of a car hitting a pole - which was NOT in the script. Even in scripted, planned ubber fast driving for movies they have unplanned accidents.

There is something to be learned from his death. Don't think all the cool stuff you see in the Fast and Furious movies is something you cannot do without REAL risk of accident and lose of life - yours and other people. He was the original primary star of the most popular street racing movies ever made. So there is something to be learned from his death in a high speed cornering wreck while in a half million dollar super car.

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If people wanted to have an educational discussion about this that is one thing... I am talking about the endless "stars" that people talk about, revere and treat like gods. Guy died. Big deal.

Bodhisattva said:

So what? Guy died. People die everyday. Why do people mourn because he was an actor?

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I wasn't a fan of his F & F movies, they didn't do a whole lot of for me but i watched some of them numerous times.

I don't care who they are, actor - non actor - random guy in the street - whatever. Don't mourn if you don't want to but why does it bother people if someone does. It doesn't affect you in any way shape or form.

Bodhisattva said:

So what? Guy died. People die everyday. Why do people mourn because he was an actor?

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Every time a celebrity dies and someone posts about it on a message board or Facebook, there's always gotta be THAT guy who posts this, and also THAT OTHER GUY who starts complaining that we're not given soldiers enough respect. You can set your watch by it.

LaMidRighter said:

Speed had to be excessive for the turn, not arguing that. However people are proclaiming driver error(likely) without all the facts. A high performance car can get up there quickly, and if a throttle sticks as has been seen on multiple vehicle models since the new CPU/Mechanical hybrids have been introduced it could be a factor, anything could have happened is my point. I don't like the fact that people are automatically jumping the gun and speculating one way or the other.

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In principle I agree with you, only I also think it reasonable to figure the car didn't likely have numerous failures at the same time. Even if the throttle stuck, there are so many other computer controls that will kick in (unless turned off or reprogrammed), that still wouldn't lead to an accident. So if it had been a Toyota or other ordinary car? Possible. But that is all but impossible in a Porsche GT. The computers more drive the car than the driver does. A "stuck throttle" would trigger front-to-rear tire sensors, the brakes and transmission to shut it down within milliseconds. I don't think mechanical failure alone could account for this, though could contribute.

The shop that worked on my CL65 was astonished at the vast array of sensors all feeding computers, and I had no clue how much the computer systems of such cars now do - including for safety. Prior to it, I had a Jaguar XKR (a supercharged version of the XKE). I got rid of it because the computers SO MUCH control over the car for safety's sake it was annoying. Until the CL65 I had no clue that cars had computers that operate the brakes and throttle - like it or not. It can be almost like your just along for the ride. And the failure safeguards even worse. If the computers sense ANYTHING is wrong, they literally shut the car down - and then MAY allow you to limp home in 2nd gear. They do not want either warranty claims on multi-six figure cars nor products liability lawsuits by people rich enough to buy them.

Supercars are SERIOUSLY programs to STOP IT AND SHUT IT DOWN! if anything goes wrong. That doesn't mean just turning off the motor. It means taking control of the throttle, brakes and suspension while shutting it down. Some actually are starting to even take over steering too.

Jeremy Clark bought a Ford F40 and immediately came to hate it, because the computer just keep turning the car off sensing something was wrong.

We also get into the question of if a person goes into a 30 posted curve at 90 in a car that can do it, but blows a tire while doing so and it wrecks, is that accident solely due to mechanical failure? I suppose that would be how someone looks at it.

Serenity said:

I wasn't a fan of his F & F movies, they didn't do a whole lot of for me but i watched some of them numerous times.

I don't care who they are, actor - non actor - random guy in the street - whatever. Don't mourn if you don't want to but why does it bother people if someone does. It doesn't affect you in any way shape or form.

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It doesn't. Correct. Just making a point that most of this is idol worship and false sympathy.

Kobie said:

Every time a celebrity dies and someone posts about it on a message board or Facebook, there's always gotta be THAT guy who posts this, and also THAT OTHER GUY who starts complaining that we're not given soldiers enough respect. You can set your watch by it.

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...then we also have THAT GUY that shows up to point out all THOSE OTHER GUYS... Yep. I like being this guy because it is interesting to point out all the idiotic idol worship and false sympathy. Mother and baby die in child birth. No story. No sympathy. Some random guy actor dies and it is head lines and people care. Stupid. I am that guy and I love it.

Look at the picture of the damage, that car shouldn't have caught on fire and burned. Porsche may have a lawsuit on it's hands.

Such supercars - which they are REALLY rolling out in increasing now - are VERY limited production and DO NOT go thru required crash testing. Their production numbers are too low to be required - and why most only make nor more than 499 per year of any particular model. The total production of what I have was only 194 worldwide total all of the 3 years it was made - averaging less than 100 per year. So the model went thru no government crash or safety testing and standards.

They don't crash 10 top-line Ferraris to test for USA Federal standards, nor Porsche GTs. Likelihood of catching on fire in an accident is one testing standard. The Porsche GT wouldn't have had to meet it. Had those two been in a Camry or Chevy Impala in that same accident they'd likely have just walked away from it. These supercars are a mixed bag. It probably could have handled a blowout at 170 mph, but this particularly scenario leading to a fire was not anticipated or designed to avoid. These are all semi-hand custom cars, not assembly line cars.

Bodhisattva said:

...then we also have THAT GUY that shows up to point out all THOSE OTHER GUYS... Yep. I like being this guy because it is interesting to point out all the idiotic idol worship and false sympathy. Mother and baby die in child birth. No story. No sympathy. Some random guy actor dies and it is head lines and people care. Stupid. I am that guy and I love it.

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Who cares? If an actor was in a film or series of films that gave someone joy, who the **** are you to come and deuce all over their sadness? I for one thought the F&F movies were stupid and I don't think I ever saw Paul Walker in anything other than Varsity Blues, but geez. If you don't like the thread, then just pass on it.

Bodhisattva said:

...then we also have THAT GUY that shows up to point out all THOSE OTHER GUYS... Yep. I like being this guy because it is interesting to point out all the idiotic idol worship and false sympathy. Mother and baby die in child birth. No story. No sympathy. Some random guy actor dies and it is head lines and people care. Stupid. I am that guy and I love it.

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No sympathy? Not really Bodhi. Just because it's not headline news doesn't mean that people wouldn't be saddened by the news. For many of us it’s impossible to deny our instinctual human response to death and loss, irrespective of who it may be.

I have no issue with his death being headline news. His death just might save someones life. If you could take something positive from Paul Walkers passing it would be a message to the young people who idolised Paul and his F & F movies movies. The message is that it doesn't matter how much money you have, how famous you are, you aren't invincible. No one in real life should drive like he did in F & F and driving high powered vehicles and losing control can get you killed. Hell it can even kill your best buddy in the car set along side you and if you really **** up you can kill innocent bystanders going about their day to day business.

joko104 said:

In principle I agree with you, only I also think it reasonable to figure the car didn't likely have numerous failures at the same time. Even if the throttle stuck, there are so many other computer controls that will kick in (unless turned off or reprogrammed), that still wouldn't lead to an accident. So if it had been a Toyota or other ordinary car? Possible. But that is all but impossible in a Porsche GT. The computers more drive the car than the driver does. A "stuck throttle" would trigger front-to-rear tire sensors, the brakes and transmission to shut it down within milliseconds. I don't think mechanical failure alone could account for this, though could contribute.

The shop that worked on my CL65 was astonished at the vast array of sensors all feeding computers, and I had no clue how much the computer systems of such cars now do - including for safety. Prior to it, I had a Jaguar XKR (a supercharged version of the XKE). I got rid of it because the computers SO MUCH control over the car for safety's sake it was annoying. Until the CL65 I had no clue that cars had computers that operate the brakes and throttle - like it or not. It can be almost like your just along for the ride. And the failure safeguards even worse. If the computers sense ANYTHING is wrong, they literally shut the car down - and then MAY allow you to limp home in 2nd gear. They do not want either warranty claims on multi-six figure cars nor products liability lawsuits by people rich enough to buy them.

Supercars are SERIOUSLY programs to STOP IT AND SHUT IT DOWN! if anything goes wrong. That doesn't mean just turning off the motor. It means taking control of the throttle, brakes and suspension while shutting it down. Some actually are starting to even take over steering too.

Jeremy Clark bought a Ford F40 and immediately came to hate it, because the computer just keep turning the car off sensing something was wrong.

We also get into the question of if a person goes into a 30 posted curve at 90 in a car that can do it, but blows a tire while doing so and it wrecks, is that accident solely due to mechanical failure? I suppose that would be how someone looks at it.

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I get where you are going with it, but any catastrophic failure can happen on any machine, you just hope it doesn't happen at a critical time. We don't know what happened here yet, but it will come out I'm sure in the next couple of months. I warned people against that new "super Nissan" that came out which had even more tech than other supercars that drivers get "too used to" having the car do the work and once stuff fails it's too late to learn.

Kobie said:

Who cares? If an actor was in a film or series of films that gave someone joy, who the **** are you to come and deuce all over their sadness? I for one thought the F&F movies were stupid and I don't think I ever saw Paul Walker in anything other than Varsity Blues, but geez. If you don't like the thread, then just pass on it.

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No. I will stay. Thanks... he was in that movie with Jessica Alba in her bikini all movie... Into the Deep. That one was cool . The F&F were stupid beyond belief. If people don't like my deuce and a half, thank you very much, then don't post on the world wide web.